Transcript of CFPB Hearing on Small Business Lending
May 10, 2017Transcript of the CFPB hearing from earlier today courtesy of: https://www.captionedtext.com/client/ViewTranscript.aspx?EventId=3263140&ParticipantId=ad67099c-16c3-40cf-885a-7e0a1468a30f
Event ID: 3263140
Event Started: 5/10/2017 1:50:29 PM ET
Please stand by for real time captions.
We are delighted that you were here and we are delighted that you are in the city of Los Angeles. We are grateful to have the Honorable Mike fewer. City attorney for the city of Los Angeles. The Honorable Commissioner Jan Lynn , Commissioner of business oversight and California’s Attorney General. We are grateful to be representatives of the small business Association and the Federal Reserve.
That we tell you about what you can expect today. You will hear from city attorney Mike fewer and then Commissioner Jan Lynn and the attorney general. You will hear from the consumer bureaus director Richard Cordray. Following the remarks David Silberman the acting deputy director and associate director to four markets and regulations will frame the discussion with the panel of experts. There will be an opportunity to hear from members of the public. Today’s field hearing is being live streamed at Today’s field hearing is being live streamed@consumerfinance.gov.
Let’s get started. Los Angeles city attorney Mike Fuehrer has long been one of California’s lighting — leading lawmakers. As his chief since July 2013. He has brought an innovative problem-solving focus to the office that combines tough and effective execution with creative initiatives to improve public safety and the quality of life throughout the city. His efforts have also sparked change throughout the state and the nation. Under the city attorney’s broad authority Mister fewer has secretly — frequently secured. He announced in historic settlement against Wells Fargo for opening unauthorized customer accounts. He and the CFPB joined forces to get restitution for its customers, put protections and place and in penalties. Previously he served as majority policy leader and chair of the judiciary community worry — he authored the homeowners Bill of Rights. You may now have the floor. [ Applause ].
Thank you. The introduction was longer than remarks. That was generous. Thank you. I want to on behalf of all of us welcome our director Richard Cordray to our city. Just a word about the collaboration. I was extremely proud of the work of our office, some of whose lawyers are here with us today. In pursuing the Wells Fargo littered — litigation. That aesthetic evolution — catalytic affect. And want to underscore, there is no way that litigation could have had the profound impacted has had without the deep collaboration with the consumer financial protection Bureau under Mister Cordray’s leadership. We also worked with the leader of the office of currency. This collaboration was essential. In that regard, I must say while we’re here in Washington, their efforts underway to either diminish the authority of the CFP be or eradicated altogether. I have the opportunity to be in Washington including discussing how we should work together to ensure the continued viability and strength of the CFPB. Director Cordray leadership has been remarkable and it’s been instrumental in protecting consumers across the nation. I would say, anybody who cares about consumer protection should be standing up and loudly denouncing efforts to undermine the CFPB. I did a radio interview this morning cuppa I did get some applause. [ Applause ] that applause was for Richard and his team. I was interviewed this morning on the radio and I was asked, the purpose of which was not about this but the commentator shifted to what was happening here today and said to me, do you think in light of what’s happening in Washington, the attacks on the CFPB , is a Trump administration to business friendly? Given this is the focus on small business, I want to focus on that. We should all be business friendly. That is a key role for government to play. Being business friendly does not mean protecting businesses violate the rules, at the expense of consumers. Being business friendly does not mean protecting businesses who violate the rules who are in competition with those who play by the rules. That’s what being business friendly means, supporting businesses who are playing by the rules to do better. Which is why I am pleased to be here, as we focus on access to capital and other issues that focus on small businesses, especially those in disadvantaged areas of our nation. With this is my special assistant, Capri Bad Axe. — Mattox. Capri is in charge of my office outreach to the business community. We are working to connect businesses that are trying to improve and expand and hire more people, especially in disadvantaged areas to capital and training on how they could do better. I am eager to hear what more we need to know and what more we need to do, to assure that small businesses can succeed, especially in neighborhoods of our city and our nation, where we should be compelled to do better. Everybody who wants a job should have access to a job. Our small businesses are the way that we will assure that an America, we are a nation where the dignity of work is elevated to a place where it needs to be. Thank you Mister Cordray. You will be hearing from two other partners with who I am extremely proud to share this room today. I am eager to learn more today so we can do better. Thank you very much.
Map grant — [ Applause ]
Thank you for your remarks. Our next speaker is Jim Leonard 01. — Commissioner Jan Lynn . She was appointed in 2013 and previously’s served as the Commissioner as the Department of corporations appointed by the Governor in December 2011. Part two that Ms. Selin was that — Commissioner Owen was a manager at Apple ink from 2009 two 2010. Vice president at J.P. Morgan Chase, state director of government industry affairs at Washington Mutual from 2002 through 2008 and executive director of the California mortgage bankers Association from 2000 until 2002. She also has extensive experience in public service. She was acting commissioner of the Department of financial institutions from 1999 until 2000 after serving as deputy commissioner from 1996 to 1999. She also said as exactly director of California investment network program after serving several years as consultant to the Senate, state banking community. Commissioner Owen you have the floor. [ Applause ]
Every time I hear that introduction, I think holy moly I am really old. I will spend a few minutes to think my partners, Mr. Feuer, the attorney general and my partner in crime Director Cordray. I want to give you some data. We have done some data collecting. We get some information that I think is important for you to look at as we discussed this issue the Department of business oversight overseas over 360,000 licensees from banks, credit unions, mortgage lenders, pay day lenders, securities brokers, dealers and investment advisers. Also, we supervise franchisees and we approve proposed state securities permits. Our job is daunting, exciting and rewarding. With my partners, it is truly a challenge I wake up and want to do every morning. In 2015, California’s GDP surpassed $2.5 trillion. Hence, were the six largest economy in the world. That same year our non-bank licensees reported to us that they originated 400 that they originated 412 that they originated $412 billion in loans, in California. That’s more than the total of 35 states GDP. These non-bank lenders make more than 78% of their loans to commercial enterprises. Most of which are small businesses. California is home to more than 3.8 million small businesses. These firms employing 50% of California’s workforce and drive our economy. Our small businesses are respected globally for their innovation and their fortitude. The vast majority employee 500 or fewer workers and collectively make up 99% of all the businesses in California. Two years ago the U. S. small business administration reported California leads the country in several different categories. The number of small business employees, 6.5 million. The number of self-employed individuals, 2.5 million. The number of self-employed minorities, 1.1 million. The number of self-employed women, 900 973,000. According to the U.S. Census Bureau, California leads the nation with 1.6 million minority owned businesses. LA County leads the nation with 55% of local businesses, minority owned, more than half of those by Latinos. California is also proud to be the nation’s greatest number of women owned businesses, nearly 1.5 million. Women owned firms employing more than 1 million people and generate more than 200 222 $222 billion in annual revenue. Women-owned firms is larger than the number of employees, because many are one-woman ventures and many women owned more than one firm or multiple firms. To assist them, the governor created an office to service California’s single point of contact for economic development and job creation efforts, especially for small businesses. Affectionately, this department is called goby is. — Last week to Governor proclaimed May to be the small business month in California. California’s is the nation’s leading market for online landing. We are home to headquarters for several most prominent players in the sector. Lending club, Prosper, a firm, funding Circle and others. I bring up online lending because from 2010 until 2014 companies reported online consumer and small business financing activity increased over 900% to $2.3 billion. State regulators are getting a bad rap. The industry says that a state-by-state regulatory system is too costly and carries too much compliance risk and inhibits innovation. State regulators do not totally agree with these criticisms. I will tell you, we do acknowledge the companies have some legitimate concerns about the state system and we are moving to address them. As the state’s main financial regulator, let me tell you what I expect from the sector as it stands today. In many ways, we treat them no different than any other licensee we expect the same from all of our licensees, compliance transparency accountability, sound financial practices and most important, fair and honest treatment of our consumers. No one should think that they can gouge small business borrowers are any consumers, because they operate online. I know the CFPB agrees that regulators will work hard to keep up with technological innovations and consumer protections will be as sharp and clear as ever. As the bank regulator or financial services regulator, I am committed to serving the needs of California’s small business community and to being a partner to small business stakeholders in California. We welcome your feedback. Call us, call me. Let me know what you are thinking and what we can do to help. Thank you. I look forward to a fruitful day. [ Applause ]
Thank you, Commissioner Owen for the generous remarks. Our next speaker is Xavier Becerra. He is the 33rd attorney general of the state of California and is the first Latino to hold the office in the history of the state. The state’s chief law enforcement officer, Attorney General Xavier Becerra has decades of experience serving the people of California through appointed and elected office. He has fought for working families, the vitality of Social Security and Medicare programs, and issues to combat poverty among the working poor. He is also championed the states economy by promoting and addressing issues impacting job generating industries such as healthcare, clean energy, technology and entertainment. Attorney General Xavier Becerra previously served 12 terms in Congress as a member of the U. S. House of Representatives. While in Congress, Attorney General Xavier Becerra was the first Latino to serve as a member of the powerful committee on Ways and Means. He served as chairman of the house Democratic caucus and was ranking member of the Ways and Means subcommittee on Social Security. Prior to serving in Congress, Attorney General Xavier Becerra served one term in the California legislature as a representative of the 59th assembly District in Los Angeles County. He is a former Deputy Attorney General with the California Department of Justice. The attorney general began his legal career in 1984, working in the legal services offices representing the mentally ill. Attorney General Xavier Becerra, you have the floor. [ Applause ]
I have to make sure I take her wherever I go. I love the way she pronounces my name, Xavier Becerra. I don’t even say it that well. I know that Director Cordray hired her for more than the fact that she can pronounce my name . We are thrilled that you are here representing us on behalf of the consumer financial protection Bureau on the West Coast, the forward leaning movement of America. I want to say a few things, I have to cheer the man who is our quarterback when it comes to providing consumers, whether you are a small business person, an immigrant family trying to navigate your way through this country or you are a recent graduate from college, hoping to open up your rings. Richard Cordray is our quarterback. We should do everything we can to make sure he can take the team down the field and scored touchdowns all of the time for the men and women who want to make America work. If Richard Cordray succeeds as our director of June 20, he is keeping doors open and that’s all we need. You talk to almost anyone and all they want to know, is there some predictability behind what they will do whether it’s taxes, regulations, the business climate — if they have a way of knowing how to get there they will do it. It’s the uncertainty that causes the real difficulties for small businesses. Richard Cordray is a guy who make sure that that door remains open and we can all shoot for that point on the horizon. We have an obligation to help our quarterback comic he has been spectacular even under some of the most difficult circumstances. I am thrilled that Mike Feuer is my partner in crime. That word is used often, in this case it is really true. I love committing crime with Mike Feuer. He knows how to do it well. We are very fortunate in Los Angeles to call him our city attorney. He is served us in so many different places. He does it so well. Whenever I am with Mike Feuer, I feel like the marathon runner that just came in the top 10 and Mike is the Ironman contestant who does the triathlon like nothing and just passes me by. It’s hard to keep up with them, he is the best. Commissioner Owen, thank you for what you do for giving us the perspective so that we need to know why California is so important not just to us but to the nation. You have made it clear why the numbers count, but why the people make the numbers count. I just want to mention the micro, it is this, it’s you if you have a business, if you do spend — defend small businesses or people like my parents who started their own business, not knowing what they were getting into. My father had a sixth grade education my mother did not come until she was a teenager. They did it. They knew the micro of starting a business. They bought a small house and they rented it and then they bought another and rented it. Before you know it, they were making more in retirement than when they were both working. I consider myself a small businessperson. Island for my parents. I know this, I don’t have time to navigate everything going on in the business world. It’s like “Ghostbusters”, who are you going to call? When it comes time to making sure your business is doing okay, Consumer Financial Protection Bureau and Richard Cordray is who you call. We need them to be there for us every step of the way. The Attorney General’s office will do everything to partner with the consumer financial protection Bureau with our partners at the state level, Commissioner Owen and all those at the state who work on behalf of the people and with our city attorneys and district attorneys who try to protect does daily. We need your help. This is where these types of workshops and forums are so important. The get to connected to the people who are willing to help. My job is to enforce the laws for 40 million bill bill — people in the state of California. We have a very robust consumer protection division in the Attorney General’s office. One of the people who are just hired to be my special assistant, dealing with the issues involving consumers is Ellie Bloom, whom I stole from the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. Yes. She is here. I also have Alyssa I had of the external affairs, so we can reach out to people and find out what you need us to know. Under the Constitution of the state, I have the authority to begin independent investigations of any activity where Californians are impacted and harmed. I intend to use that authority to the hilt. On behalf of the people of this country, who are like my parents, who worked very hard and were able to establish a business and now I’ve done so much to make it — in the past college was unknown to the family and to make it in the past, that forever we will only dream of being able to do things for our kids and make it something that’s in the past to believe like my father as a young man could not walk into a restaurant because of a sign that said no dogs or Mexicans allowed. That is all in the past. California’s forward leaning. One of the reasons we have succeeded is because we do not stop, we do not look back, we understand this is a tough place to do business. Our environment makes it difficult for businesses to establish her, our air and water are tough to keep clean. We must impose requirements on the gasoline we pump into our cars on how much we can put into this LA basin before gets a polluted your kids cannot go out and play or they get asthma. 40 million people, that is tough to organize. All of that we do, we’re high-cost state and we are high quality as well. That requires a lot of effort on the part of all those willing to work with quarterback Richard Cordray to make sure we keep those doors open. That’s our job. No that you got the Chiefs on form is — chief law enforcement officer of Los Angeles with you, the person the Governor has appointed to make sure businesses have the opportunity to have those doors open and Commissioner Owen with you. Know that the Attorney General is willing to work with them and with you but most importantly, I will do everything I can to make sure that regardless of Washington we don’t abandon our quarterback at the can — Consumer Financial Protection Bureau . We know what success means when you have Richard Cordray fighting for you. We won’t stop scoring and we will work with Richard Cordray to make sure everyone in America benefits the way California has by having a forward leaning policy in the way we do with consumer issues and help our people. Thank you, Director Cordray. They think all my colleagues and I thank you for knowing it was important to be here this morning. Have a great day. [ Applause ]
Thank you, Attorney General Xavier Becerra. I am now extremely pleased to introduce Richard Cordray. Prior to his current role he led the CFPB’s enforcement office, he served on the front lines of consumer protection as Ohio’s Attorney General. In this role he recovered more than $2 billion for Ohio’s retirees, investors and business owners and took major steps to protect its consumers from fraudulent foreclosures and financial predators. Before serving as Attorney General, he served as an Ohio State Representative, Ohio Treasurer and Franklin County Treasurer. Director Cordray . [ Applause ].
Thank you. My football career peak in the seventh grade, I do remember Vince Lombardi saying that when the going gets tough the tough get going. It’s great to be here with three of our closest and most productive and for me personally, our most dear partners anywhere in the country. I think them all for being here. I think them and their teams for the work they have done, are doing and will continue to do with us to stand up for Americans who expect and deserve the right kind of support and protection for their government officials. Thank you. Thank you all for coming it’s good to hear — be here today the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau is announcing an inquiry into ways to collect and publish information about the financing credit needs of small businesses. Especially those owned by women and minorities. We are aware of the role they play in the our lives. Small businesses dropped the — drive the economic engineering. It is estimated they’ve created two out of every three job since 1993 and they now provide work for almost half of all employees in the private sector. We perceive large gaps in the public’s understanding of how well the financing credit needs of these entrepreneurs are being served. As you probably know, the Congress provided the consumer bureau with certain responsibilities in the area of small business funding. There is a strong logic behind this. When I served as the Ohio Attorney General we recognize the need to protect small businesses in nonprofits by accepting and handling complaints on their behalf, just as we did for individual consumers. And approach that proved to be very productive. The line between consumer finance and small business finance is quite blurred. We heard that at a roundtable this morning with community and consumer advocates. Or than 22 million Americans are small business owners and have no employees. According to data from the Federal Reserve, almost 2/3 of them rely on their business as their primary source of income. This is embedded in many people’s lives. Congress has charged the consumer bureau with the responsibility to administer and enforce laws including the equal credit opportunity act. Unlike others, it governs not only personal learning but some commercial lending as well. We have now conducted a number of supervisor examinations and small business lending programs at financial institutions. Through that were learning about the challenges they face in identifying areas where risk may exist and were assisting them developing the property to manage that risk. In the Dodd Frank Wall Street Reform and consumer priest — protection act Congress took a further step to learn more about how to encourage and promote small businesses. To determine how well the market is functioning and facilitate enforcement of the fair lending laws, Congress directed the Bureau to develop regulations for financial institutions that went to small businesses, to collect information and report. The request for information will be released and asks for feedback to help us understand how to carry out this directive in a way that is careful, thoughtful and cost-effective. We have considerable enthusiasm for this project. In my own case, I’ve seen how small business financing can have a number — economic impact. I will tell you a story, when I served as a treasure of Ohio, we had a reduced interest loan program to support job creation and retention by small businesses. The way the program worked was that the state could put money on deposit with banks at a below market rate of interest in this deposit will send link to the same size loan to a small business and a correspondingly below-market rate. This link to posit has been authorized more than 20 years earlier but it had fallen into the disuse. At its core, the program maintenance. Small businesses are often in need of financing to update and expand. Often not at large amounts of money, if they can get an expensive financing they can fertilize their ideas for growth and be more successful. We diagnosed this program and found after its initial success it had become too bureaucratic. We heard from both banks and businesses that the program which was the paper-based was so slow and cumbersome, nobody wanted to bother to use it. We changed it. We put the process online, rebranded it and made specific commitments to those who wanted to participate. We told them they could fill out an application and less than 60 minutes and promised they would have a yes or no answer within 72 hours. That was not easy. It required very close coordination with the bank that took heart. We did it and the Grow no program took off. Only $20 million was advocated but in two years we deployed more than $350 million helping 1500 small businesses create and retain 15,000 jobs across the state. It was also exciting to see how the businesses were able to use the loan funds. I can recall a construction business that needed a loan to about — bike a piece of equipment. They got the money, the got the equipment and they thrived. I recall a manufacturer that needed money to turn their factory sideways to utilize more space and employ more people. We found the put, revenue and jobs. I recall a company in Western Ohio that started as a caterer and begin to make their own tents for events. They recognize they might succeed is tentmakers and needed financing to bid on a project with the U. S. Defense Department. We got them that loan, they got the bid and they were named as one of the 500 fastest growing businesses of the year. The moral of this story is business opportunity, especially those for small businesses often hinge on the availability of financing. People have immense reserves of energy and imagination. Nowhere is that more true than in the state of California. Human ingenuity is the overwhelming power that allows human beings to reinvent the future and make it so. These forces unleashed what Joseph Schumpeter called the gales of creative construction a constantly mold our economic life. Innovation has sharpened our nations edge for generation after generation. When credit is unavailable, creativity is stifled. To make the meaningful contributions that are capable of making to the economy, small businesses particularly women and minority owned need access to credit. Without it they cannot take it vantage of opportunities to grow. With small businesses so deeply woven into the nation’s economic fabric it is essential that the public along with small business owners themselves can have a more complete picture of the financing that is available to this Key Center — sector. We are releasing a white paper today that lays out the limited information we currently have about key dimensions of the small business lending landscape. According to census data and depending on the definition use, there an estimated 27,600,000 small businesses in the United dates. We estimate that together they access $1.4 trillion, that’s trillion not billion in credit. Businesses owned by women and minorities play an important role in the space. Women-owned businesses account for over one third, 36% of all non-farming private sector firms. The 2012 survey of business owners, the most recent indicates that women-owned firms employed more than 8.4 million people and minority owned firms employed more than 7 million people. Those are huge numbers by comparison in 2014 fewer than 8 million people were employed in the entire financial services sector. That was the big paragraph on the facts and figures, I was inspired to get through it by you Commissioner Owen. When small businesses succeed they send ripples of energy across the economy and throughout our communities. 2013 study by the Federal Reserve Bank of Atlanta found that counties with higher percentages of the workforce employed by small businesses showed higher local income, higher employment weights and lower poverty rates. In order to succeed they need access to financing to smooth the cash flows for current operations, meet contingencies and invest in their enterprises to take advantage of opportunities, as they arise. Another study found the inability to obtain financing may have prompted one in three small businesses to trim their workforces and one in five to cut benefits. Unfortunately, much of the available data on small business lending is to dated or two spotty to paint a full picture. Especially, those owned by women and minorities. We do not know whether certain types of businesses or those in particular places may have more or less access to credit. We do not know the extent to which mall business lending shifting from banks to alternative lenders. Nor do we know the extent to which the credit constraints that resulted from the great recession persist and to what extent. The beige book produced by the Federal Reserve is a survey of economic conditions that contains huge amount of anecdotal information about business activity around the country. It has no systematic data on how small businesses are fearing and whether they are being held back by financial constraints. Given the importance of small businesses to our economy and the critical need to access financing if there are to prosper and grow the Porton to fill in the blanks and the how-to’s on how they can engage. That is why Congress required institutions to report about applications in accordance with regulations to be issued to the consumer bureau. That is why we are here today. The inquiry we are launching is the first step towards crafting this mandated rule to collect and report on small business lending data. To prepare for the project we’ve been building an outstanding team of experts in small business lending. We are enhancing our knowledge and understand based on our equal credit opportunity act complaints work with small business lenders just helping us learn more about the credit application process, existing data collection processes and the nature and extent and management of fair lending risk. We have learned more work on the reporting of home loans under the home loans mortgage act which has evolved considerably. At the same time, we recognize a small business lending market is much different from the mortgage market. It’s more diverse in its range of products and providers which range from large banks and community banks to Marketplace lenders another emerging players and the Ventech space communities play an outsized role in making credit available. Unlike the mortgage market, many small business lenders have no standard underwriting criteria or widely accepted models for scoring. For these reasons and more we will proceed carefully as we work toward meeting our responsibilities. We will seek to do so in ways that minimize the burden’s on industry. I request for information released focuses on several issues, we wanted to determine how best to define small business for these purposes. Despite the importance of these firms to our economy, the surprisingly little consensus on what constitutes a small business. The small business administration and overseeing federal contracting sometimes looks at the number of employees, receipts and applies different thresholds for different industries. For our part the consumer bureau thinks about how to put — develop a definition that’s can this — consistent and can be tailored to the purposes of collecting data. We looking at how the lending industry define small businesses and how that affects the credit application process. Having this information will help us develop a practical definition that advances our goals and aligns with the common practices of those Inland to small businesses. Second, we want to learn more about where small businesses seek financing in the kind of loan products made available to them. Our research tells us term loans, lines of credit and credit cards of the all-purpose products used most often by her small businesses. They make up an estimated three fourths of the data in the small business finance a market, excluding the financing of merchants for service providers extend to their customers to finance purchases. We want to find out if other important financing sources are being tapped by small businesses. Currently we have limited ability to measure accurately of the prevalence of wonders in the products they offer. We also want to learn more about the roles that Marketplace lenders, brokers, dealers and other third parties may play in the application process. At the same time, we are exploring whether it’s specific types of institution should be exempt from the requirement to collect and submit data on small business funding. We are seeking comment about the categories of data on small business lending that are currently used, maintained and reported by financial institutions. In the statue, Congress identify specific uses of information that should be collected and reported. Include the amount and type of financing applied for, the size and location of the business, the action taken on the application and the race, ethnicity and generate — of the owners. The reporting of this information would provide a major boost in understanding small business funding. At the same time, were sensitive to the fact that various institutions may not currently be collecting and reporting all of this information. We understand that the changes imposed will create implementation and operational challenges. We will look into clarifying the precise meaning that some of these require dellavedova — data elements to make sure they are understand and reported. We will be considering whether to add a small number of additional data points to reduce the possibility of misinterpretations or incorrect conclusions working more limited information. To this and were seeking input on the kinds of data different types of lenders are currently considering in their application process as well as any technical challenges posed by collecting and reporting this data. We will put all of this information to work and think carefully about how to fashion the regulation mandated by Congress. Finally come of the request for information seeks input on the privacy implications that may arise from disclosure of the information that’s reported on small business funding. The law requires the consumer bureau to provide the public with information that will enable communities come a government entities and creditors to identify community development needs and opportunities for small businesses come especially those owned by women and minorities. We are also authorized to limit the data dismay public to advance privacy interest. We will explore options to protect the privacy of applicants and followers and the Compostela — confidentiality. The announcement we are making today and the work we are doing cure reflect central tenants of the consumer financial protection Bureau. Were committed to evidence-based decision-making. We aim to develop rules that need our objectives without creating unintended consequences or burdens. We went to see a financial marketplace that offers fairness an opportunity not just to some, but to all. The marketplace it does so without regard to race, ethnicity, gender or any other element of our fabulous American mosaic. Small businesses are powerful they supplied jobs, teach skills and service backbones of the community. We need to meet obligation to develop data that will shed light on their ability to access much-needed financing. It is essential to their growth and prosperity and therefore to the growth and prosperity of us all. What Cicero observed an agent Rome, still holds true today. He said, nothing so cements and holds together all the parts of our society is faith or credit. Our communities depend on both of these precious things just as much today. As we launch this inquiry want to remind you that we value the feedback we get. We take it seriously, consider carefully and integrated into our thinking and our approach as we figure how to go forward with his work. We ask you to share thoughts and experiences to help us get there. We thank you for joining us here today. Thank you. [ Applause ]
Thank you Director Cordray. I would now like to invite the panelists to take the stage. While they are doing so, I will introduce them. David Silberman is the bureaus act in director and associate director to her. Cheryl Parker Rose Sirs at the assistant director for the bureau’s office of intergovernmental affairs. Grady Hedgespeth serves as the assistant director for the bureau’s office of small business lending markets. Our guest panelist include Elba Schildcrout , East Los Angeles Community Corporation . Makin Howell , Main Street Alliance . Josh Silver, Kate Larson , U.S. Chamber of Commerce . Todd Hollander , Union Bank and Robert Villareal , CDC Small Business. David.
Thank you. I can still say good morning but just barely. I am David Silberman the acting deputy director and associate director for research marketing regulations. It’s a pleasure to be here and share this portion. As you’ve heard, we will hear from a number of respected panelist consumer advocates and industry participants. Each panel member will give us some background and provide perspective. We will then post questions to our panelist and engage in discussion. The panel discussion will be followed by public testimony. Before we begin, let me frame the issues we will talk about. Is Director Cordray noted, and as we discussed today in the white paper we released. Small businesses play a key role in fostering community development and fueling economic growth both nationally and in their local communities. To do so, these businesses and particularly women and minority owned be fair and equal access to credit to allow entrepreneurs to take advantage for the opportunities for growth. As the director explained in section set 10.7 one of the Dodd Frank act Congress amended the equal credit opportunity attack to require institutions to compile, maintain and report information concerning credit applications made by small businesses. Congress directed the bureau to it — issue a regulation to govern and report. The purpose is twofold, to facilitate enforcement of the fair lending laws and second to enable communities, governmental entities and creditors to identify needs and opportunities of women-owned, minority owned and small businesses. Is Director Cordray explained were in the early stages and were focused on outreach and research. Today’s hearing and the our five we issued our them Porton steps as we seek to enhance our understanding of the 1.4 train dollars small business financing to discharge our abilities. As context, I will provide — invite our panelist. They will each of 10 minutes for a statement and we will moderate a discussion with the panelists. We will start on my far left, Elba Schildcrout , East Los Angeles Community Corporation .
I am privileged to be here. I’m thinking of my mother on Mexican mothers today. I am privileged to be here and while we came here from Guadalajara. At East Los Angeles Community Corporation , we advocate for economic and social justice in the greater LA area by building grassroots leadership, developing affordable housing in providing access to economic development opportunities for low and moderate income families. In 2013 we began working with local businesses to preserve the vitality of the small business community. Our commercial corridor project is part of a strategic effort towards responsible community economic development by developing leadership connecting Rick and Morty businesses with technical assistance and hosting monthly meetings. We are empowering our business community to take ownership and be involved in their community. In 2015, we held a shared vision of economic stability and inclusive 50 for all residents including two brick-and-mortar businesses, street vendors and mariachi groups. To help them thrive, they need new resources such as micro-lending and lines of credit. Many rely on friends and families limited resources for loans. The also need case management to ensure they can make use of resources that already exist, such as technical assistance for writers and others doing business to support — business support services. It is through this relationship building with small business owners who are primarily Latino, immigrant, and women that we have learned of their needs and challenges. Some of these challenges have been difficult in getting credit from banks, especially small loans under $250,000, some of these owners need anywhere from $5000-$10,000 to get started. They also need data transparency to show which lenders are making loans and to which groups and where they are being made. We think things should partner and do joint outreach and address specific needs such as language access. The data should be segregated for Latino and other groups. Small business owners need greater protections to prevent discrimination. We’re excited and supportive of tran 20 ‘s efforts — tran 20 — we’re excited and we thank you.
Makini Howell , Main Street Alliance .
Hello. I am a member of the Main Street Alliance of Washington coalition of 2000 small business owners. I have been running my family’s business for 13 years. We have been in business for a total of 40 years, were a food service. I am six vegan restaurant concepts in Seattle. I employ over 40 people. I offer health coverage, I start my minimum wage at $15 an hour. I have grown our family business from grossing $200,000 in last year we close to $3 million. I did nothing without a bank loan. When I went into apply for a loan, I don’t know if it was because I was a woman or if it was because I was black. It could be any number of things that are risks for a banker. I understand when I speak to consultants that they had no concept of why it wasn’t doing stake and people would ask if I would ask fish. My menu is 100% plant-based. Anyone of these things I can understand would be a reach, not only did we succeed but I toured as Stevie Wonder’s personal chaff — chef in 2015. Nothing was possible without lending. We have to change our understanding around what can be successful. As opposed to framing it is let us collect data and let some well deserving minorities and women in, people of color and women are the majority of people that are providing jobs. They are the majority that are small business owners. Bankers and banks have to change their framing around who is deserving and who actually can provide jobs for the community. Small businesses are the engine of the economy. The engine of the economy currently is being run by people of color and by women. That Pinkie Master change. That lending will then change along with what is happening in Washington. Someone told me when you go into a bank they decide right away whether they will lend to you. That I dress well enough, Amite fallen off, — the change has to come from understanding who helps to run the economy. I would still love to get a small business loan. I haven’t tried because they don’t need money and I am 13 years in. I am attractive to a lender at this point that I don’t need money now. I needed money then. I won’t ask a bank for money now, in order to get to where I am, I had to use predatory lending, cash advances, my father gave me $10,000. I did get one from a community lender that took me months of rewriting my business plan to get that. It’s a challenge and I feel I would’ve been a $6 million company if I had gotten the lending necessary at the beginning. I had the education and the support necessary from the banks. That’s my story. Thank you.
Thank you. Josh Silver.
Good morning I’m senior advisor of the National Community Reinvestment Coalition. I thank you for this hearing today. There are some lending’s those lenders on the panel that may be encouraged to give you a loan after this. I think there are well-intentioned lenders. Last week USA Today reported a survey showing improved small business confidence. Things are looking up for small businesses after the great recession. Not so fast. The survey was sparse and on which businesses were surveyed. Research shows that women minority owned and very small-businessess experience difficulties growing because barriers accessing credit. Considered the following, women-owned firms are significant force but they remain small. 90% of women-owned small businesses have no employees other than the owner. Part of the difficulty women faces lack of credit. Just 5% of women-owned businesses use bank loans to start their businesses compared to 11% of mail and businesses. Minorities also faced difficulty starting and growing a small business. Nonminorities are twice as likely as minorities to own employer businesses. If minorities owned businesses at the same rate as nonminorities, our country would have 1 million additional employer businesses and more than 9.5 million additional jobs. Surveys have found that African American small businesses are more likely than a why don’t business to not apply for credit, due to fear of rejection. And CRC researchers from the smallest businesses, those with revenues below $1 million at the most trouble accessing credit. In 2010, 8% of these businesses received loans compared with 20% of all small businesses. Access to credit is critical yet inequalities in access contribute to overall inequality. NCRC found in a report that in 2010, the business funding let an economically distressed counties in Appalachia was 44% of national rates. The Woodstock Institute found that in Los Angeles and San Diego, businesses and minority census tracts were 31% of all businesses but they received only 21% of the loans under $100,000. A variety of reasons exist for these disparities, some due to the characteristics is also do two on — discrimination. In section 10.71 of the Dodd Frank act it will be on — they will draft a predecessor appearing in bills in the future. It requires data collection from lending institutions regarding demographic characteristic of small businesses including race and gender into report the data publicly. The active data collection and dissemination is a powerful motivator for lenders to increase responsible lending to underserved businesses. As Director Cordray says, former justice Louis Brandeis talks about sunlight and the electric light of data disclosure. No lender wants to be highlighted for shirking any part of the community and they want to get up to speed with the lenders that are doing a better job. Use data for a spur of competition. We have saying that data drives a movement for economic justice. In the arena, better data will respond — result in more employment and more wealth building in underserved communities. Isn’t that what we are about? Making capitalism work. Thank you.
Thank you. Kate Larson, U.S. Chamber of Commerce Good afternoon. As a proud Trojan I’m happy to be here today and LA. I would like to thank the Bureau for holding this hearing on this important issue and especially to Grady for their outreach over the past few months. They have been fantastic. We are excited to engage with them on the request for information. As previously mentioned, I’m the director at the U.S. Chamber of Commerce , the largest business Federation representing more than 3 million companies. We represent all small businesses and lenders. We have a unique perspective of seeing the entire picture of small business market and how it affects the end-users. More than 96% of business come when he said fewer than 100 employees. Small businesses are the lifeblood of our economy. Not only to produce goods and services we depend on but to create jobs, provide stability to millions of Americans. Remarkably, 28 million mainstream institutions account for over half of the sales of the United dates, 55% of all jobs in the country and are responsible for 65% of all new job creation. I’m sure you can all recite these data. It is hard to overstate the importance of credit for small businesses and support their inventory, open locations and hire more employees, manage downturns and otherwise push forward. We asked the Bureau to conduct a comprehensive sound report on potential barriers to small business lending in the United it’s including regulatory burdens that it may fully understand the credit products used by small businesses, inform forthcoming rulemaking to ensure it promotes, not inhibit small business funding and propose a tailored rule to include not only necessary business and products but also fulfilling the well-meaning purpose of statute. We hope the SPA will also lend their expertise in this area. Unfortunately, small business lending is not fully recovered from the great recession. The most recent small business credit survey that was mentioned jointly conducted by the Federal Reserve banks found cash flow remains a challenge for small firms, only half of applicants were seen — received financing and 18% received nothing. 32% had to delay expansion as a result of the shortfall. 21% had to reach into their personal finances. This is not okay. Much of this and I know we will all have differing opinions. We think it’s due to post crisis over regulatory overhaul and increasingly risk adverse financial institutions, that have to meet safety and soundness and know your customer requirements when issuing alone. Asked — as we begin the fact-finding process we hope to consider the true spirit of the statute and include in the definition to be tailored to only the most vulnerable populations, specifically the SBA definition of 500 employees does not seem small at this juncture. Every small business has different needs and approach credit differently. This market is different than the mortgage lending and data collection is not close to the home mortgage disclosure act. It’s a misnomer. The needs are different and small business lending is a complex market with many sources. Depending on the needs of the small business, owners may turn to friends and family, home equity lines of credit, credit cards, SBA loans,’s private loans or a combination of multiple sources. Larger and middle-market firms get more complicated. This is why the definition needs to be tailored. Employee training will be incredibly complicated, given the sources of business credit. Home-equity credit officers issuing a HELOC, flight attendants and a credit card, a trucking company offering leasing for trucks, retail clerks offering branded credit cards, they may not understand they will have to capture small business lending data. Without a firewall, — it will be difficult to create a firewall between the employee accepted credit application and the one making the underwriting decision. Without a firewall institutions will violate the equal credit opportunity act. That will be more difficult at smaller institutions. Business representatives applying for loan, if this applies to more than just the owner of the business, may not have the information to create confusion and prolonged credit application. They may not know how much they have for annual revenue or the other data points. It is unfeasible for lenders to know if the business changed in status. That is a hurdle. It will be impossible for institutions to report individual credit transactions. My wonderful mother who drove 2 1/2 hours to be here is a small business owner. If she’s buying something on a credit card for her business, is that also going to be the same thing as home goods? That is difficult way if you are going credit by credit transaction. In conclusion, we think the Bureau for soliciting information but stressed the importance of the Bureau conducting a sound, robust study on the roadblocks inhibiting small business lending, including potential regulatory considerations. To understand where small businesses are attaining credit and where they are not, ensure the rulemaking will not curtail the sources and an environment where access to small business credit is constrained, it’s imperative we energize that marketing encourage growth. I appreciate the opportunity to stuff I and thank the Bureau for its approach. Look forward to working together and I’m happy to answer any questions.
Thank you. Todd Hollander from Union Bank.
Hello. I am also currently serving as the chairman for the small business community for the consumer bankers Association and a serve on the California bankers Association. I’m proud to represent all the groups in this testimony. We wish to express our appreciation for the collaborative and transparent manner in which the CFPB — tran 20 is under Katy — undertaking these rules. The environment, private lending groups and lenders share a common goal. We want to provide loans to small businesses to help generate jobs, tax revenues and economic growth and prosperity. Lent to all market segments without bias or discrimination enable identification of business and community development needs, ensure regulatory has the ability to hold lenders comfortable and avoid saddling lenders with rules that are unnecessarily costly to implement and execute and that could generate misleading data or curtail access to needed capital. In terms of the current small business lending environment the CBA seen signs of improvement. Members say charge-offs and delinquencies have decreased from the great recession and are currently at all-time lows. SBA programs are still vital. In 2016 they had to record your exhausting their appropriation of $30 billion. From the peak in 2008, small business lending saw a steady decline until early 2011. Small business lending has seen sharp decline, while the Elba Schildcrout proved it is still significantly less than prior to the downturn as evidenced by utilization rates. Historically, 40%. I’ve been doing this for almost 30 years, I’ve worked for large banks and I’ve worked for community banks. Between those you could, usually when you loan to a large population you could set your watch by 40% utilization in that population. After 2008, we saw those rates come down and businesses weren’t borrowing what they had available. Postrecession we have more conservative population of business owners then we had going in, they felt the pain of firing people they felt the pain of downsizing and those things. Not only is the lending environment important, the optimism that businesses feel when they are confident, they feel economic growth and borrow and by and do all the things they need to do. Small business credit card utilization is also declined yearly since 2008 but one. New accounts have been well below levels in the past. FDIC numbers reported decline from 2008. In our view, there’s a miss conception that the decline and small business lending. If banks don’t lend money we don’t make money. Our job is to deploy capital and we want to continue to do that. We noted a decline in demand on such loans. The next her to will be the 10.71 action while the CBA supports the goals we believe they should keep in mind that although it mandates the role it is not a can to data collection on others — lending products such as mortgages. The CFPB needs to take great care in the creation of these regulations. We are pleased to see that they are pursuing formal information gathering processes to ensure it is well-informed which will enable it to put forth regulations that the mandated proffering requirements while avoiding costly and burdensome regulations that could be drier cost and less credit available. Specific to the challenges the notion that some old that business lending parallels nicely to residential mortgages is misplaced. Residential lending has the same collateral type and business collateral types can vary. Residential lending has with rare exceptions, consumers as applicants and businesses have all sorts of applicants limited liability sky missiles — sole proprietorship’s, all of these things run the gamut of borrowing and lending business owners have a much shorter and varied duration than mortgages. 3 to 5 years as opposed to 1530 years. — The address of the business had come up with have to unofficial owner the applicants to be debated and have no easy answer. Residential mortgages typically have wanted to borrowers. Small businesses have multiple borrowers, large partnerships, and that also runs the gamut. These challenges must be considered when constructing these loans and it’s daunting and twofold. Determining which data fields to collect that will yield meaningful conclusions from the small business lending community is likely to be more challenging. In light of these issues and current lending trends, to streamline credit processes in order to extend credit with greater speed to qualified applicants, the CBA and member institutions cannot stress enough the importance of a well-balanced to avoid overly extended data requirements. While the CFPB has discretion under 1071, in order to issue fair and achievable rules the result in these meaningful useful data, they may need to request from Congress changes to certain aspects of the rule. Examples of well-meaning definitions or requirements are outlined in the rule, but must be made optimum. First, primary address of the business whether it serves a business minority for the address of the borrowers regardless of the location. The definition of minority women, necessitates the determination of both ownership and earnings allocation. Access to this data including incidental access, unlike the mortgage-based is thickly prohibited for underwriters and in the event they do not those they do have access mandates disclosure to applicants. This is impractical and unnecessary. Thank you for the opportunity to testify and we look forward to continuing to work with you for a successful outcome.
Thank you. Robert Villareal . That’s what I said.
Thank you to all of you. We appreciate you coming to Southern California and Los Angeles. It’s important that you are here, in the city 50% of the businesses are minority owned and in the county it’s 55%. That’s five years old and we know those numbers have changed. It’s a greater amount. I am with CDC Small Business were headquartered in San Diego, that city that gave you that football team that you did not want. [ Laughter ] I am also the Executive Vice President there and the CEO of the bank or small business CDC of California that’s part of the CDC small business family. CDC Small Business finance is a 39-year-old company we are certified development company. We provide the SBA 504 product real estate lending product. We partner with banks such as Union Bank, we as an agent to 40% in the small business only puts 10% down. We’re NSBA community event is under. That is a program that allowed mission based lenders such as ourselves to do is seven a loans — the gentleman to my left created that when he was with the SBA and it’s had a wonderful impact on the small business and minority communities. SBA lenders do lesson 4% of their loans to African Americans across the country. Community advantage lenders to 13% of their loans to Latinos and African-Americans. It’s been a great program. We are the largest organization that does the both — we work in the states of California, Arizona, and Nevada. We are an economic development organization. While we’ve done $13 billion in lending, most of it is been through the commercial real estate area, $2 billion has gone to women, minority and veterans. To our non-504 program we are a micro-lender and at one point we had three different CD FIs and we have done $70 million in lending, particularly in Southern California. I am to the right of the banker. Might take will be different than that industry, I think it’s important that we are here. I think it’s important that those in the audience are here. I look forward to hearing from everyone in regards to why we’re here and why can 71 is important. Let me give you three reasons why I think it is important and why, as a state attorney Xavier Becerra said we need our quarterback and we need his support. Racial discrimination still exists. There was a study done by Utah State, BYU and Rutgers published in the Washington Post in June 2014, they took nine individuals, three African-Americans, three Latinos and three in close and gave them the exact same resume. Just them the same and went into banks. There was clear differentiation in the way the people of color were treated. It still exists in the world. More recently, I think Josh quoted the Woodstock Institute patterns of disparity that was done in January, they looked at Chicago, LA and San Diego and lumped in Los Angeles. He talked about the lack of lending in those census tracts. If there had been lending to the amount of small businesses in those census tracks that were of color, that was a 1.6 that was a $1.6 billion opportunity that was lost, for those census tracts in communities of color. Y 1071 is critical, all we have is that we can look at CRA, we don’t know who is getting or what individual’s are getting the loan. In 2015, there was $4.7 billion — this is reportable on the website. In the same year the SBA there were 750 loans for $136 million. In terms of units, the SBA was let’s then .5% — I’m looking at Michael and I was told him it was 4% and in dollars it was less than 3%. There was 99% of the loans going out in the County of Los Angeles, we don’t know who they went to. We can look at the census tracks and say they are praying all but — predominately minority, we can’t find out who they went to and with 1071, we will find out who applied and what happened to those individuals when they did not get the loan. I am for the folks here — I implore the folks here and my colleagues, this is important and it will take a lot of work. We must come to an agreement. It is very important that we take this mandated rule and implemented. We look forward to working with everyone here to get that done.
Thank you.
Thank you to all of the panelists. Might colleague Grady Hedgespeth and Cheryl Parker Rose will now ask the panelists some questions for further discussion. I get the first question Robert, talk about the challenges that financial institutions face when extending commercial credit to small businesses, particularly minority and women-owned.
I will try to be brief. There are lenders and there are a lot of reasons. I will base it on my 12 years of experience working at CDC small business, I had conversations with my colleagues and CDC Small Business finance just had a report done on Latino small businesses in the state of California . It was done for us by the national Association for Latino community asset builders and hopefully that will be public at the end of the month. While all small businesses face similar challenges, entrepreneurs that are women or are people of color have particular challenges. One is, record-keeping or financial documentation or it’s the lack there of. There could be a variety of reasons, maybe they are cash-based but it comes down to financial literacy. When I say that, I’m not saying that small businesses are financially illiterate. Far from that, with the challenge is that lenders whether you are a Union Bank or a small business finance have certain criteria and documentation that we require. We put people through some awful loops for a loan at the SBA. A lot of folks don’t have the background. Since mothers were used, I will use my father who came with a sixth grade education and ran two very successful businesses. He never received a loan from a bank. He never could have put together the documentation that I know my company asks for from someone. He was not financially literate, he just did not understand the way the system work. As lenders, it’s working with the small business and working around and educate and have the patience to get them through the process. Is a mission-based lender, we put money into paying business advisors to help individuals with that. The second one is also what’s known as a thin credit file or poor credit. Experience did a study that was released in September of last year that showed businesses, minority owned businesses, their business score was five points lower than a nonminority and their personal credit score was 15 points lower. A lot of lenders, one of the first questions asked will be what is your credit score? There is a threshold and if you are not at 680 and you are at 679, a lot will ask you to leave or they will not finance you. That is the challenge as lenders, how do we work with those that have a poor credit, that does not completely dictate their ability to pay and how do we look at other factors. The third and fourth are combined, I have learned from individuals and we have seen it, it takes just about as much money to underwrite and process and $50,000 loan than a $500,000 loan. If you are a profit driven organization, who are you lending to? As a mission-based lender we will work with those that want $5000 or $10,000, how do we build efficiencies with that and how do we deal with fintech? Those competitors are charging 94% and we of refined Tensed — refinance loans, how do we do that when they can answer someone in minutes and finance them within days. That’s difficult and that’s a challenge for reputable lenders who are trying to do right and treat people with respect.
Cheryl.
Josh, what are some of the current barriers to understanding the small business lending landscape?
Thank you Cheryl, current barriers lack of data. Longer answer, 1071 will mandate — I’m sorry it’s hard to swallow and talk at the same time.
Type of lender, large bank, small bank, non-bank, fintech, we need data on the mall because we need to know which ones are making responsible and sustainable loans. We need to know which needs more oversight. The literature talks about smaller banks being relationship lenders and getting to know the small business owner and having more flexibility in their underwriting. The bigger banks tend to use automated underwriting and some of the study suggest it’s a smaller banks that have an easier time reaching an underserved population. We haven’t had the data for the smaller banks for number of years. In the mid to thousands, the bank regulators exempted the smaller banks from community reinvestment act data reporting requirements. We need that to understand the market and to know who is making responsible loans to underserved businesses. I should say NCRC did a study for the Appalachian region and the smaller banks were 20% of the market in several states. It’s important to understand what they are doing. Loan type, this is huge, whether the loan is an origination, whether it’s a refinance, whether it’s a renewal, a line of credit, different credit needs are served by different loans. I talked about the community reinvestment act data which large banks report. This is the most systematic data that we have. There are significant limitations. You can’t — the reporting rules are strange, there is renewals be reported with originations, think it’s mostly originations but there are renewals in there as well and you can’t separate them and that clouds the understanding. Credit card lending is higher cost lending, it is needed. Term loans are also needed and basically there is a crude way to differentiate had a card lending from term lending in the CRA data. We need better data, there has been some SBA studies that have shown minorities rely upon credit card lending. If we had better data, we could use this spur of competition to encourage more term lending by traditional banks. Factoring, a form of high cost lending, the white paper and when you look at the number of transactions it looks like factoring was higher than term lending. We need more data on high cost lending, to make sure it’s not the new subprime lending that is actually stripping wealth instead of responsibly serving credit needs. Loan action, we need data on applications and denials, currently it’s only originations and to really know whether it’s unmet demand or is there low demand and what could be ways to increase the demand in some communities. Revenue size is huge, most small businesses have sales of less than $100,000 as shown in the white paper. The CRA data only tells you whether it’s above — whether it’s made above or below $1 million in revenue. I could go on. We need data on reasons for denial, insufficient collateral, credit history, inadequate documentation, is the business too new, the zip and mentioned. I am not asking for the sky. I am asking for well-defined — there are statutory requirements like race and gender of the owner, the CFPB has some discretion data elements to add and if we do it carefully we can understand weather controlling if there are still disparities that need further investigation. Through robust collection, hopefully we can make American capitalism work better. Isn’t that what we are about? Shouldn’t there be a bipartisan consensus, better data and more transparency increases lending and ultimately people who are working hard and playing by the rules can provide. This should be beyond question.
Grady.
Todd, CBA are always very thoughtful in your remarks. You have mentioned some but what are the unique aspects to consider when you extend credit for commercial purposes or credits, what’s unique about that?
There are a few things that are unique when you extend credit to any small business, first is a complicated ownership structures and how you assess each ownership structure and determine the ability. The next is the difficulty in separating the ability and willingness to repay. As mentioned, especially for smaller businesses, the interrelated nature of their personal credit and business credit make it hard to separate. You would need to consider how they repay their debt after as part of the picture. Very collateral, a lot of lending that we do is unsecured. We don’t put EU cc file on the company. Some is partially secured. We take direct collateral in real estate. There are multiple purposes for the loans, we went for anything from working capital to fixed access — assets, it’s relatively straightforward. As I mentioned, the closely interrelated nature between the personal and business finances are hard separate. The last couple things are relative agent up the balance sheets of small businesses tend to be less deep and with less reliable data than large businesses. It becomes an art and the quality information is less. And as Roberto mentioned, the cost at which we need to process these economically and still make money for the bank and protect our depositors makes it difficult but not impossible to do.
Makini Howell , can you talk about small business owners and their access to credit to grow businesses.
Yes. My name is Makini Howell . It’s like zucchini. Could you repeat the question?
To small business owners have credit?
In my experience, I did not have access to a traditional bank loan. I had access to credit. I had access to a fintech loan, merchant cash advances, which is basically predatory lending. You purchase funds and if you need a $30,000 loan, you can purchase it for $15,000 and pay back $45,000. One question was how do reputable lenders come — combat that and they have to reconsider their bottom line and what they need to make off of a $50,000 loan and a $500,000 loan. When we raised the minimum wage, all business owners said to have a different understanding of their profit margin. If you really want to help, the predatory lenders have gotten a hold of the market, you have to rethink your profit margin as illegitimate lender. There is always available capital. It could bankrupt to, if you take that. If you have to pay it back in two or three months and that’s generous. Some of the problems around it by that you get junk fees which are anywhere upwards of $800 weekly or they will take payments daily. You can get borrowers paid in average of [ Indiscernible ] 44% of small businesses rely on credit cards are financing. Stalled growth, if you’ve taken a cash advance and you hit a slow season and you aren’t making money and your fixed assets those costs have not changed. That could tank your business. You still have to pay back this exorbitant loan and it’s not considered alone, it’s considered purchasing funds. You have to pay that back in addition to your fixed expenses. There is money available, it’s not necessarily the money that will help you grow your business. More than likely it will bankrupt your business.
Thank you.
My question is for Kate, what should small businesses be aware of in terms of accessing credit from financial institutions?
Thank you Cheryl, I will mimic a lot of what Robert said earlier. Documentation, documentation, documentation. You must know your business plan inside and out. Understand that institutions, it’s not that they just don’t want to give it credit, it’s that they have various stringent safety and soundness requirements that are from the regulators. We don’t want to relive the Great Recession. A lot of that was ability to repay, suppose it requires is — regulators are more strict about repayment. That is why we are concerned about maintaining access to credit, while giving it out and is saved in some manner. To small businesses, as prepared as possible with any financials or projections to give institutions the cover to explain to the regulators that we know this person is going to be able to pay this loan back. They cannot just say they seems nice and they have a great idea. It won’t work like that. I would say any documentation that you have available. And really understand your business planned and what would be right for you, is it Marketplace lending, traditional lending or SBA loans, that would be a good avenue for the Bureau and I would be happy to work collaboratively to identify those types of different credit. A lot of people don’t know what is available. That’s also a financial literacy piece.
Albert, what type of credit is available to owners who cannot access loans from traditional lenders?
It’s similar to what Makini Howell mentioned , the predatory loans including cash advances. They are similar to payday lending’s, some of the small business owners use personal credit and credit cards. They get into high interest credit card debt. There’s also loans from family members or friends. Some things that we have worked that along with members of the California reinvestment coalition and others, is looking at how we can expand and help the business owner with technical assistance and helping them with their credit score. A lot of times there is no dissension between personal finance, credit score and their business score. A lot of people are talking about financial literacy and it’s more that they need options and know how they stand and how that can be utilized. A lot of the availability loans can be made, they cannot be made by as much as we would like a lot of them need more funding and there needs to be more education about what is available. With us at East Los Angeles Community Corporation , we have social lending loan, it is for social loans, people lend and borrow to and from each other. We have done in partnership with the Bay area [ Indiscernible ], we have done small loans for them to improve their credit. There is no interest and there are no fees. They are lending to each other and it’s being reported to the credit bureaus. We are starting with some of the micro vendors so they can work towards credit. This comes with financial education, coaching and technical assistance, to help them get to the documentation were talking about. A lot of our people are small business owners are business immigrants and bilingual Spanish speakers. They trust our organization and others like us. We have earned their trust and they are able to come to us and we can speak to them in regards to their options.
One last question which we will ask all panelists and give you all a chance for closing remarks. I will ask you to keep your answers brief. What are the benefits and challenges to conduct small business lending data and make it available to the public?
It’s a good way to distinguish who the good and bad players are and we can see who is doing the loans and who is not into his potentially discriminated against. I see it as an opportunity. It will be an opportunity not only for the traditional institutions, they will see opportunities in new markets. Los Angeles County, 55% of the small businesses are minority owned. We don’t approach this completely as a challenge but as an opportunity to see where you can grow your market, in the next phase of your financial institution.
Todd.
There are definitely benefits to this and challenges. We do a lot of data collection. Whatever we do with the 1071 action, I caution that we not double up on the were getting to the cost. We need to establish a minimum set of data standards to take into account, we did a survey among the 60 banks that belonged to the consumer bankers Association in any would be surprised on how it they matched, if any. I caution you to take all those things into consideration. The risk of inaccurate or drawing a wrong conclusion from the data that’s extract and remains high. If we’re not careful in the way we disseminate the information and the way we interpret it, it’s not completely objective and we run the risk of increasing legal costs leading to incorrect conclusions with the output of the data and how it can be manipulated. In conclusion, it’s necessary and banks want to put capital in the hands of the people who will use it. The better the business community does the better the banks do. We just reflect the community we represent. We look forward to working with you to establish the right rules and thank you for the collaborative nature and engaging in this.
I will be brief. As stated the challenges that we have been looking at. This is a common goal. I totally agree with Director Cordray statement in his opening, when that it is unavailable, creativity suffers. We’re all working together to ensure there are — there is credit for the small businesses that need it. I would like to underscore that we hope to minimize the regulatory hurdles and decrease the cost of underwriting. After Dodd-Frank, the cost of underwriting for any commercial loan has escalated to about $7000 per loan. As was indicated, for $100,000 loan or a $4 million loan. We want to make sure that the hurdles that institution have to go through are minimized to get credit to the people who will repay and so we can grow small businesses. In terms of privacy, there are concerns about the publication in the day of data breaches, governmental agencies are not immune. That is always a concern. Re-identification, in terms of the different loans and there could also be an anti-competitive nature if the loans are re-identified. I am very excited to work with you going forward.
My grandparents were grocery store owners and started shortly after the Great Depression. I wonder how they did it. Did they get loans? If we had more information then I think we would have more economic — it would’ve helped the Great Depression. We are now in the years after the great recession and I want to caution some statements that were made. Overregulation is stifled a retarded lending. In the years before the financial crisis, it was the reverse. It was a lack of regulation the Federal Reserve board had on the books in 1994, they have the ability to curb abusive lending and they didn’t do anything. We all know about the lending beyond people’s ability to repay. We know that not only caused the recession but a global recession. Small business funding — I think has been under regulated. We don’t have the same consumer protections. Yes, it’s a balancing act. It’s a balancing act but if anything there is not enough regulation and oversight in the small business lending arena. More data will not stifle lending, it will not delay loan processing. We have had 40 years of experience with the home or just disclosure act — Homewood — yes, there are costs but even for financial institutions, the benefits outweigh the cost’s. They want to know how competitive they are doing. When the new data becomes available in March and you requested, it’s not consumer groups that are the biggest request these, it’s banks asking other banks so they can see how other competing in all markets. Data, if it’s done well and you have good information on loan terms and conditions, it makes the lending marketplace more competitive. Also, if you do it carefully you won’t get wrong conclusions are unnecessary litigation. We have had 40 years of come to experience, there have been instances where there has been agree just behavior — egregious behavior and it has been stopped before it continued to do damage. We won’t know what the extent of the egregious behavior is if there is no data. If there is more data, there will be less harmful behavior. Lastly, we have a lot of CRA small business data reporting that we can build on to make this — I think we lost $14 trillion in the recession because of abusive lending. If we had better transparency in the marketplace we could gain trillions of dollars in wealth. Thank you.
Makini Howell .
I think it’s a great opportunity to not only collect data, whether it’s a black women or an Asian man Representative flying — applying for loan. It’s an opportunity to create an understanding that education comes before literacy. To change the culture of lending, if we work on the culture of lending and understanding the engine that the people of color and women create for small businesses and understand how much money is sitting there, sometimes lost on the table. We understand that it’s not an unwillingness to pay back, there — the literacy and education must come prior to and that way you can lend safely to a community, understanding that they understand how to pay that money back.
We think the benefits will outweigh the challenges. There will be a better understanding in the market to help the government decide how to allocate resources and identify discrimination. This data is very important. There will be better and more lending once we know where this lending is happening. The evaluation of products are rich in the communities in need and with the right loan products. That is important and we don’t know that right now. Make assessments and address issues and inform policy.
This concludes the panel portion of our program. Please join me in thanking all of our panelists for thoughtful discussion.
Crap crap — [ Applause ]
Panelists, please take your seats. I will note turn it over to Zixta Martinez who will moderate the next portion of the hearing.
Thank you, David. I will now turn to one of my favorite parts which is to hearing from you all. An important part of how the Bureau helps consumer finance markets work is to hear from consumers, state and local partners and community advocates. One way that we gather feedback is through that such as these we have had events across the U. S. events across the U. S. You can submit is consumer complaint through our website www.consumerfinance.gov. Our website will walk you through. We take complaints and we also have another feature called ask CFPB, you can find answers to over 1000 frequently asked questions as well as additional resources. We have Spanish-language website. It provides access to central consumer resources and answers to consumers frequently asked questions. I encourage you to visit our website to learn more about the resources and tools to help consumers make the best decisions. It’s time to hear from members of the public that are here today, a number of you have signed up to provide comments and observations about today’s discussions. The public comment is an important opportunity for the consumer Bureau to learn into your about what’s happening in consumer finance markets in your community. Each person that has signed up to provide testimony will have two minutes to do so and what we hear is invaluable. We want to hear from as many of you as signed up. I encourage you to stick to the two-minute limit, so that everyone who signed up to provide comment has the opportunity to do so. Our first commenters are members of the federal and state community. I would invite Arthur Zaino with the Federal Reserve 10 San Francisco. Our staff will bring a microphone to you.
Melanie winter.
Hello. I’m with the community development group here in Southern California with the Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco. The subject of data collection, with small business funding is something that between the local reserve banks and the board of governors in Washington is a very important concern. We have extensive data on the subject and in particular we have data around small business ownership and the connection to auto loan financing. Some of our great concern was happening with discrimination in that market, with funders of all sizes large and small and independent auto lease agents or lenders. We are here to listen to what is happening with the CFPB and to provide support and advice, as we do in our responsibility with 1071. Thank you.
Thank you. We appreciate the outreach and we look forward to engaging in substantive efforts with you. Round foam — R Fong.
Good afternoon. My comments on the need to continue to improve the collection of more detailed data. As the nation continues and the population we recommend the nation adopt the national content test for proposed minimums. We recommend these categories be applied in three areas including the home mortgage, small business [ Indiscernible ] and small business administration loans. The data will result in a better assessment of our community’s needs, better targeting of solutions from both public and private sector, greater access to services and capital for our communities small businesses and healthier Asian-American and native Hawaiian Pacific Islander communities. Thank you.
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[ Event Concluded ]
Re-Banked
April 23, 2017
Just a few years ago, the financial services community was fixing for a battle of David and Goliath proportions—with scrappy, upstart online lenders threatening to rise up and vanquish the fearful and mighty brick and mortar banks. Instead, the unexpected happened: a number of well-respected online lenders and banks set aside their battle arms and began looking for ways to collaborate with their rivals—offloading loans, making referral agreements and establishing more formal partnerships, for example.
“In the real world, sometimes David wins. Sometimes Goliath wins. Just as plausibly, sometimes both sides carve up a market and they often have different offerings that target unique customers,” says Brayden McCarthy, vice president of strategy at Fundera, a New York-based marketplace for small business lending that works with a variety of lenders, including traditional banks.
Certainly, the change didn’t happen overnight. But over time, both online lenders and banks have been forced to tailor their expectations more closely to market realities. Despite their fast growth trajectory, several online lenders have come to realize that they lack several things many banks have, namely a strong, time-tested brand, a solid customer base and ample capital. Banks, meanwhile, have realized that their slow start out of the gate with respect to technology is a severe competitive disadvantage, and that they need more nimble, savvy partners to stay in the game.
Given these shifts, more and more online lenders and banks are taking the approach that if you can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em. Although some industry leaders are actively pursuing strategies that put them in direct competition with banks, partnerships of varying degrees between traditional banks and alternative players are increasingly common. As a result, the lines separating the two are getting increasingly blurry.
“Market forces are acting as a shotgun at the wedding. Whether the two sides are entirely comfortable with the marriage is irrelevant, they need one another,” says Patricia Hewitt, chief executive of PG Research & Advisory Services LLC in Savannah, Georgia. “They’re stronger together than they are alone.”
The evolution of Square is a prime example. The San Francisco-based company really packed a punch in the merchant services world with its mobile card reader designed for small businesses. From there, the payments company sought additional ways to diversify, eventually turning to merchant cash advance as a way to help small business customers obtain funds quickly. Then, in March of last year, Square moved into online lending, teaming up with Celtic Bank of Utah to offer small business loans online. The partnership got off to a running start. In its most recent earnings report, Square said it facilitated 40,000 business loans totaling $248 million in the fourth quarter of 2016—up 68 percent year over year—while maintaining loan default rates at roughly 4 percent.
Even SoFi, the San Francisco-based online lender that has been pointedly outspoken in its anti-bank rhetoric, now has bank-like aspirations. In February, the lender acquired mobile banking startup Zenbanx, giving it the ability to offer checking accounts and credit cards in 2017. Also in February, SoFi teamed up with Promontory Interfinancial Network to enable community banks to purchase super-prime student loans originated by the online lender. Large banks have been buying SoFi loans for several years.
COLLABORATION IS THE WAVE OF THE FUTURE
Many see collaboration between banks and online lenders as a logical step in the industry’s evolution. Online disrupters have forever changed the face of lending—in the same way that online brokerage shaped the financial advisor industry, according to Bill Ullman, chief commercial officer of Orchard Platform.
“There’s a tendency to want to view things as either black or white, online lenders vs. banks. The reality is that the entire financial services industry is undergoing a transformation with technology as the core driver,” he says. “I am of the view that both traditional financial services companies and fintech players can survive and thrive,” Ullman says.
For its part, Orchard recently inked a deal with Sandler O’Neill that provides access to the Orchard platform for the investment bank and brokerage firm’s bank and specialty finance clients. The deal is expected to help small banks better evaluate their options with respect to online lending opportunities.
Partnerships between online lenders and banks take many forms. Some of them are behind the scenes, where marketplaces sell loans to banks or banks informally refer customers. Others are more public. For example, in September 2015, Prosper and Radius Bank of Boston teamed up to offer personal loans to certain customers through the bank’s website using the Prosper platform. Customers can borrow from $2,000 to $35,000 in this manner.
Then in December 2015, JPMorgan Chase and OnDeck joined forces in order to dramatically speed up the process of providing loans to some of the banking giant’s small business customers. In April 2016, Regions Bank and Avant announced a partnership to better serve customers who don’t meet Regions’ credit criteria.
Avant’s customers typically have a credit score between 600 and 700, while Regions sets the bar higher. “The benefit for banks is that they do not need to worry about a platform taking away customers that meet their own credit criteria,” according to Carolyn Blackman Gasbarra, head of public relation at Avant.
She notes that Avant expects to replicate this model with more banks in 2017. “Lately many platforms and banks have come to realize their counterparts are more friend than foe,” she says.
Given the changing tides, industry watchers expect to see more relationships develop between online lenders and banks over time. These could include referral agreements, technology licensing arrangements, formalized revenue-sharing partnerships and perhaps even outright acquisitions.
PARTNERSHIP ADVANTAGES
Certainly, working together can be mutually beneficial for both online lenders and banks. For new online lenders and other fintech players, partnering with an established bank allows them to bypass significant regulatory and compliance hurdles because the necessary requirements are already in place.
“Why jump through all the hoops when you can just have a buddy system with an existing lender?” says Kerri Moriarty, head of company development at Cinch Financial, a Boston-based company dedicated to helping people make smarter investment decisions.
Fintechs that license their technology to banks still have to meet the high standards of third-party vendors determined by bank regulators, notes Stan Orszula, co-head of the fintech team at the Chicago law firm Barack Ferrazzano Kirschbaum & Nagelberg LLP.
“But it’s still less onerous than being a direct lender,” says Orszula, who works closely with banks and fintech providers on legal, regulatory and corporate issues. “They are learning that they need banks. They really do.”
Even seasoned online lenders that have a regulatory framework in place can benefit from bank relationships by using banks’ established brands as leverage. “Everyone knows Chase, Bank of America and American Express,” says McCarthy of Fundera. “They have a solid name and a solid in-built customer base to be able to offer product to them,” he says.
Teaming up with a bank gives added credibility to an online lender, at a time when the public’s confidence has faltered due to highly publicized troubles at certain firms. “Partnering has a very important signaling effect that these online players are here to stay,” McCarthy says.
Banks, meanwhile, need the nimbleness and innovation that online lenders provide. “Banks realize they have to catch up with the fintech disrupters,” says Mark E. Curry, president and chief executive of SOL Partners, which provides strategic management and information technology consulting services to financial services companies.
DIFFERENT TYPES OF PARTNERSHIP OPPORTUNITIES ABOUND
When it comes to partnerships between banks and online players, there are numerous options. In the small business lending space, for example, McCarthy of Fundera says he expects banks to continue buying loans from online lenders, as they have been for many years. He also expects more banks will route declined applicants to online lenders or online loan brokers. “This is a partnership that will allow them to make up some incremental revenue by referring business,” he says.
In addition, McCarthy says he expects banks to make products available through online marketplaces and use an online lender’s technology for online loan applications. He also expects banks will use online lenders’ technology for underwriting and servicing loans.
Years ago, before John Donovan joined Bizfi, he recalls talking to a salesman for a large national bank. The bank didn’t offer a lending product that he could give to small businesses and the salesman was losing customers as a result. “That’s where we see a lot of those opportunities,” says Donovan, chief executive of the online marketplace for small business loans.
For instance in March 2016, Bizfi partnered with Western Independent Bankers, a trade association, for over about 600 community and regional banks, to link small business clients to financing options through Bizfi. Many banks don’t offer small business loans below $150,000, whereas the average loan Bizfi does is $40,000, Donovan says, adding that the company would like to develop additional relationships similar to its agreement with Western Independent Bankers.
In the future, he predicts fintechs will continue to be more receptive to the idea of working with banks and vice versa, as the industry digests the impact of deals that are still in their early days.
FINDING STRATEGIC GROWTH OPPORTUNITIES
As banks and online lenders become increasingly accustomed to working together, there may be more opportunities for strategic acquisitions. For instance, Sandeep Kumar, managing director of Synechron, a global consulting and technology firm, expects to see banks—especially mid-tier players that don’t have the resources to innovate like big banks buying lending-related start-ups. He says banks will likely be most interested in companies that can help them with AI and other techniques to pinpoint where they should spend more efforts on cross-selling and customer profiling, for example. “There are many start-ups in this area that have very compelling technology,” he says.
On the other hand, Chris Skinner, an independent commentator at The Finanser Ltd., a research and consulting firm in London, points out that the two cultures don’t always mesh. “Quite a few startups have young, entrepreneurial founders that would loath the idea being acquired by a bank. So it really depends on the circumstances,” he says.
Valuation differences between large banks and leading online lenders may also be a sticking point for some deals, Ullman of Orchard points out. Banks’ concern over their valuation “will place a certain amount of restraint and discipline on the tech M&A activities they pursue,” he says.
ANTICIPATING TROUBLE IN PARADISE
While increased collaboration between online lenders and banks sounds good on the surface, John Zepecki, group head of product management for lending at D+H in San Francisco, urges both sides to proceed with caution. “You have to find an arrangement where you don’t have conflict,” he says. “If your innovation partner also is a competitor, it’s a challenge. If you have an inherent conflict, it doesn’t get better over time.”
That’s one reason why companies like Chicago-based Akouba have come on the scene. In Akouba’s case, its goal is to provide banks with the technology such that they don’t have to partner with an online lender that has the potential to compete for business. “We don’t compete with the bank in any way whatsoever,” says Chris Rentner, the company’s founder and chief executive.
Akouba’s business lending platform—which the American Bankers Association endorsed in February—provides banks with leading edge technology that integrates the bank’s own unique credit policies into a convenient, online process—from application to documentation— all the way to closing and funding. The bank uses its own credit policies, originates its own loans and owns the entire brand and customer relationship.
Rentner says he started the business with the idea in mind that the online lending model wouldn’t be sustainable long-term and that working alongside banks—as opposed to competing head to head— was the direction to go. “The idea that they could somehow get all of the consumers out of the banking world and onto their platforms was never going to happen. That’s why we exist today,” he says.
Smile, Dial and Trial? Why the Next Call Might be Your Worst Nightmare
October 26, 2016
Aaron Smith sued a merchant cash advance company in the United States District Court of Southern California earlier this year for allegedly making unsolicited calls to his personal cell phone registered on the Do-Not-Call list. His name has been changed for this story because he’s a vexatious litigator, even landing on an official list of vexatious litigants by the State of California in the early 2000s thanks to his tendency to file harassing lawsuits. But that’s not all, Smith has a criminal history that includes stalking and extortion and he’s served time in prison for his role in a multi-million dollar mortgage fraud RICO conspiracy.
These days he’s suing small business financing companies for alleged violating phone calls, at least five of which we could identify through San Diego court records just over the last several months. Two of the suits appeared while we were researching this story, which means that there could probably be even more by the time that you are reading this.
Smith presumably runs a business as his website has and still continues to advertise services to consumers. But if you are not an existing customer or have not been referred by an existing customer, his website warns that attempting to contact him by any means is a violation. Suffice to say that AltFinanceDaily did not attempt to contact Smith to get his side of the story.
In one complaint, Smith claims that the phone number receiving the unsolicited calls is a “private personal cellular telephone.” To his credit, a cursory glance of his business website does not appear to list any phone number for it at all. However, the Internet Archive Wayback Machine which allows users to see archived versions of web pages across time, revealed that very same phone number being prominently displayed on his business website for several years including up to as recent as September, 2015, after which it was removed. There’s reason then to question if Smith might be up to no good.
While the merits of Smith’s claims will be up to the courts to decide, his background doesn’t inspire confidence. Countless other plaintiffs using the Telephone Consumer Protection Act (TCPA) to file lawsuits have colorful backgrounds in their own right, a lot of which can be found using Google. But a suggestion relayed by some of our readers is that plaintiffs appear to be doing what they do for profit, not because they have been harmed by the calls they allegedly receive. AltFinanceDaily decided to conduct its own independent research on this issue.
SUING FOR PROFIT?
That’s just what the headline of a WDSU TV story alluded to in its coverage in 2004 of a stay-at-home Pennsylvania dad named Stewart Abramson. Titled, Man Who Turns Table On Telemarketers Turns Profit, Too, quotes Abramson as saying, “First, I’ll write them all and tell them that I’m willing to settle for the minimum statutory damages per call, which is $500, but if they don’t want to settle, then I’ll file a civil complaint.”
In a case he won against a debt consolidation firm for calling him with a prerecorded message, Abramson reportedly said, “It would have made sense for them to pay the minimum damages due me, but they wanted to put up a fight. I don’t mind. I’ll take more money.”
Abramson continued to say at the time that he felt empowered by Congress to stop this illegal activity and that he was just doing his part and making a little money for doing so. More than a decade later, Abramson’s name is still showing up as a plaintiff in TCPA cases, including in at least one complaint discovered by AltFinanceDaily against a small business financing company.
According to court records, the defendant contended that Abramson was “in the business of suing entities for violations of the TCPA,” an accusation the judge ruled irrelevant to the particular matter at hand.
Michael Goodman, a partner in the Washington DC office of law firm Hudson Cook, who was not asked about this case specifically, said in an emailed interview that generally accusing someone of being a serial plaintiff might not really help.
“Accusing a plaintiff of being a serial or professional TCPA plaintiff is unlikely to affect the outcome much, if at all,” Goodman said. “While there are outliers, the general rule is that the court will assess the merits of each case individually and will not ‘punish’ a plaintiff for being a serial or professional TCPA plaintiff.”
An email address for Abramson could not be located and given the special circumstances of his history, we did not attempt to call him.
If ever there was a TCPA celebrity however, it’d be Diana Mey, a self-described stay-at-home mom who started wrangling with telemarketers in 1998 after what her website described as “a series of intrusive telemarketing calls by a Sears affiliate pitching vinyl siding.”
She’s an important figure in TCPA history, not just because she’s been awarded millions through her lawsuits but also because she helped draft the FTC’s rules. Reports show her participating in FTC-hosted telemarketing forums in 2000 and 2002 and her name even appears in the footnotes of the FTC’s Telemarketing Sales Rule entered into the Federal Register in 2003. And so we followed Mey’s story online, noting that she has actually become famous for her pursuits, even appearing in a TV segment for ABC News in 2012. Her website at www.dianamey.com teaches others how they too can pursue monetary damages from telemarketers that engage in illegal practices.
“The first step is to write a formal ‘demand’ letter to the president of the company, stating that the letter is a formal claim for money […] for violations of the Telephone Consumer Protection Act of 1991,” her website advises.
It was quite a surprise then to discover that this Diana Mey was the same Diana Mey captioned as a plaintiff in a current case against a small business financing company. Almost two decades after her first experience, she is still filing lawsuits for alleged telemarketing violations.
Mey declined to respond to our questions even though they were not about that case, citing pending litigation.
“I’m a mom and I’m a housewife, and I’m an accidental activist,” Mey said in that 2012 ABC News interview. Others have referred to her as a “private attorneys general,” defined as someone who brings a lawsuit considered to be in the public interest.
That same title has been attributed to one Robert Braver who is the man behind www.do-not-call.com which launched in 1998 as “a consumer’s resource for stopping unsolicited telemarketing calls.” His comments appear in FCC records and he was also featured in a Dateline NBC special in 2002 about a new telemarketing scheme that was alarming consumers. Suffice to say Braver has been a consumer proponent in this area of the law for a long time, a role that has not come without risks.
According to Braver, the attorney for one telemarketer he sued, arranged to have his (then) elementary school age kids stalked and photographed, a terrifying ordeal that was only made worse after the attorney allegedly sent him a fax bragging about it. But he has continued on, noting that while he has gotten much fewer junk faxes, telemarketing calls have gotten more out of hand over time, to the point where they’re disruptive to everyday life.
“My wife is a middle school teacher,” Braver said. “She doesn’t work in the summer and gets home before I do when she is teaching. She typically leaves her phone in her purse in a spot in the kitchen and hangs out in in the den or back patio. It’s gotten so bad at times that when I need to call her, she doesn’t get up and run to look at her phone when it rings, and I have ignored unknown calls on my cell and let them go to voicemail, only to find out later that they were legit calls.”
And sometimes it’s a total mystery how they even get added to a list. “We have two teenage boys still at home, and they have cell phones too. Somehow my youngest son’s cell number got on a marketing list for student loan debt relief, and was getting 10-15 calls a day for a while,” Braver explained.
Contrast that with a story that appeared in the Dallas Observer in 2010 about one Craig Cunningham, another celebrity-like TCPA figure who still has active cases pending, public records reveal.
According to the story, Cunningham stays at home on a “dumpy couch” to wait for a particular type of phone call, “one from a representative of a debt collection agency or a credit card company, whom he’ll try to ensnare like a Venus fly trap,” the Observer reported. Cunningham is said to have learned his trade from online message boards, where we decided to look next to see if there was anyone out there indeed talking about TCPA lawsuits for profit.
On May 25, 2014, a participant using the pseudonym codename47 published a thread titled, TCPA enforcement for fun and for profit up to 3k per call on fatwallet.com, the exact kind of salacious headline that defendant companies have probably imagined in their worst nightmares. Codename47 has a big fan base it seems, with one user even suggesting to him that he should create and sell a “sue telemarketers” package so that people could do what he does for side income.
Codename47 is Craig Cunningham, who we reached out to with some questions through the fatwallet forum. He declined to answer them, citing pending litigation and the fact that he no longer does interviews.
One user on fatwallet in 2010 said of Cunningham, “It’s kind of hard to convince a Federal judge that you are a victim when you are trying to find a publisher for a book called CREDIT TERRORIST.”
WAIT, WHAT?
It now being six years later, no such book can be found in Amazon or through Google. A link to where purported information on it once was leads to a page-not-found error. The Archive Wayback Machine however, produces an interesting find.
Tales Of A Debt Collection Terrorist: How I Beat the Credit Industry At Its Own Game and Made Big Money From the Beat Down is the title of a proposed book in 2010 by Craig Cunningham and Brian O’Connell. O’Connell is a writer/content producer for TheStreet.com and a well-known and widely published author. He tells AltFinanceDaily that he wished he had written it with Cunningham but that they didn’t move forward with it.
But the proposal remains, including the description of Cunningham as being a highly sought after expert in the field of debt collection “revenge” industry.
Outside of fatwallet, the only other real mention of the proposed book could be found on a website called debtorboards.com. Lenders might find the website horrifying considering the forum’s tagline is “Sue Your Creditor and Win.” With more than 20,000 members and nearly 300,000 posts, the forum has an entire section dedicated to TCPA. Legal strategy is a dominant topic and it’s abundantly obvious that people are working together to stop companies from calling them.
Sadly, it’s not all innocent consumers out there. For example, the TCPA has invited abuse to the point where at least one person admitted to buying cell phones to maximize the chances of getting illegal calls so that they could sue. That’s what serial plaintiff Melody Stoops said in a June 2016 deposition as part of her case against Wells Fargo in the Western District of Pennsylvania.
Q. Why do you have so many cell phone numbers?
A. I have a business suing offenders of the TCPA business — or laws.Q. And when you say business, what do you mean by business?
A. It’s my business. It’s what I do.Q. So you’re specifically buying these cell phones in order to manufacture a TCPA? In order to bring a TCPA lawsuit?
A. Yeah.
Purchasing at least 35 phones, she even went so far as to register them with out-of-state area codes in places she thought were more economically depressed and therefore more likely to get violating calls. Stoops sent out so many pre-litigation demand letters and filed so many lawsuits that she could not be certain how many she sent out or how many suits she was in, according her to deposition.
Apparently Stoops found the line of legal perversion and crossed it. On June 24, 2016, the judge ruled in favor of Wells Fargo because she wasn’t injured by the calls she received, nor were the injuries she claimed within the “zone of interests” the law was meant to protect. “It is unfathomable that Congress considered a consumer who files TCPA actions as a business when it enacted the TCPA,” he wrote.
A TURNING POINT?
Hudson Cook law partner Michael Goodman said, “the impact of Stoops v. Wells Fargo is still to be determined, but I would say that it is significantly fact specific and therefore unlikely to result in large-scale changes in TCPA private actions. Stoops put a lot of effort into becoming a magnet for calls that could violate the TCPA. In many TCPA cases, consumers do not need to try that hard to receive a call that could prompt a TCPA suit.”
Stoops was pursuing calls while most of the advice and discussion uncovered online is about what to do if you get a call, not about how to create the calls in the first place. Even debtorboards, for example, is a registered non-profit, keeping consistent with its image as a consumer empowerment tool.
If the tide is turning though, it’s not in a direction favorable to telemarketers. Goodman said that “in July 2015, the FCC announced a new interpretation of the TCPA’s ‘autodialer’ standard that significantly expanded the definition and introduced a lot of unnecessary uncertainty as to what is and is not a regulated autodialer. That interpretation is currently being challenged in court. There’s a bit of a trend among courts requiring plaintiffs in autodialer cases to do more than simply allege that they were called with an autodialer. These courts, possibly in an effort to frustrate TCPA autodialer cases, are requiring plaintiffs to include circumstantial evidence of dialer use in their complaints: dead air, hang-up calls, generic messages, and so on. But the TCPA’s penalty structure still encourages suits that should not be brought.”
FCC Commissioner Ajit Pai, who was appointed by President Obama, voiced dissent to this new interpretation, echoing Goodman’s comments that it encourages frivolous suits.
An excerpt of Pai’s official dissent is below:
“Some lawyers go to ridiculous lengths to generate new TCPA business. They have asked family members, friends, and significant others to download calling, voicemail, and texting apps in order to sue the companies behind each app. Others have bought cheap, prepaid wireless phones so they can sue any business that calls them by accident. One man in California even hired staff to log every wrong-number call he received, issue demand letters to purported violators, and negotiate settlements. Only after he was the lead plaintiff in over 600 lawsuits did the courts finally agree that he was a “vexatious litigant.”
The common thread here is that in practice the TCPA has strayed far from its original purpose. And the FCC has the power to fix that. We could be taking aggressive enforcement action against those who violate the federal Do-Not-Call rules. We could be establishing a safe harbor so that carriers could block spoofed calls from overseas without fear of liability. And we could be shutting down the abusive lawsuits by closing the legal loopholes that trial lawyers have exploited to target legitimate communications between businesses and consumers.
Instead, the Order takes the opposite tack. Rather than focus on the illegal telemarketing calls that consumers really care about, the Order twists the law’s words even further to target useful communications between legitimate businesses and their customers. This Order will make abuse of the TCPA much, much easier. And the primary beneficiaries will be trial lawyers, not the American public.”
The FCC reviewed 19 individual petitions on the matter, some of which included relatively recent comments from the individuals we’ve mentioned so far. The appearance is that the FCC has collaborated with some individuals continuously over time or that individuals have collaborated continuously with the FCC. It might not matter though. Michael Goodman says that “the TCPA gives distinct enforcement rights to the FCC as well as persons who receive a call that violates the statute.”
“It isn’t really a matter of whether a particular violation should be handled by the FCC or privately,” Goodman adds. “Private plaintiffs have independent incentive to sue thanks to the TCPA’s penalty structure, and, compared to the FCC, private plaintiffs do not have to be as choosy in picking targets for actions.”
And what are the violations and penalties exactly? Goodman explained as follows:
“Depending on the specific TCPA provision at issue, private actions may be brought by individual consumers as well as businesses. The autodialer and prerecorded message provisions can be enforced by individuals and consumers, and they can sue based on a single improper call. For these provisions, the TCPA directs courts to award $500 per violation; courts do not have discretion to award a lesser figure. Courts do have discretion to award up to three times that amount (i.e., up to $1,500) per violation for willful or knowing violations. The TCPA’s do-not-call provisions are enforced by individual consumers, and this type of action requires more than one unlawful call in a 12-month period. For the do-not-call provisions, courts do have discretion to award less than $500 per violation (and can triple the penalty for willful or knowing violations).
The FCC has authority to obtain penalties of up to $16,000 per day of a continuing violation or per violation. FCC rules establish factors for the FCC to consider in calculating a proper penalty figure, including the nature of the violation, history of prior offenses, and ability to pay.”
“The base $500 per violation in statutory damages that consumers are entitled to hasn’t increased since the TCPA went into effect in 1992,” said activist Robert Braver. “This should be increased, especially since the TCPA does not allow for the recovery of attorney’s fees.”
Goodman said that private actions are much more common than FCC enforcement actions. That much is obvious. Private actions are becoming all too common in the small business financing industry where so many cases were uncovered through public records that we lacked the resources to follow them all.
More lawsuits might not be the cure though, according to Braver. He said that “more egregious telemarketing (massive robocall campaigns) should be criminalized on the federal level,” adding that “it’s one thing for an unscrupulous telemarketer to allow their shell corporation to have an uncollectible money judgment, but it’s another thing when individuals can wind up with a felony conviction on their records, and possible jail time.”
While that suggestion might antagonize telemarketers, Braver said that his cell phone, which is listed on the Do-Not-Call-Registry, can receive as many as 4-5 telemarketing calls per day, generally robocalls.
Whether plaintiff allegations from cases in this industry are true or not, legal fees over TCPA cases have continued to be an expense that many small business financing companies are contending with. Those costs have a way of being tacked on to the price of financing for small businesses that need capital, making it a lose-lose situation.
One marketing company in the industry who had to remain anonymous because settlement negotiations at the time were likely to include a non-disclosure clause, posed the question, “how are you supposed to help small businesses if you can’t actually call small businesses?”
“More and more merchants are using their cell phone as their business phone,” he argued. “The TCPA regulations need to be changed so that a merchant can’t claim his cell phone is his business phone one minute and his personal phone the next.”
Indeed, the motivations, facts and alleged damages in TCPA complaints are not always clear. And even though the plaintiffs don’t always win, the laws as they are, can make telemarketing difficult no matter how careful one is.
Still dialing for dollars these days? Just know that some folks may be just a little too happy that you called them. And for all the wrong reasons.
Good luck out there.
Should Funders Pay Lifetime Renewals?
January 24, 2016OPINIONS ARE LIKE A-HOLES RIGHT?
We all know what they say about “opinions” right? They (opinions) are basically like a-holes and everybody has one. I’ve stated a lot of opinions here on AltFinanceDaily over the last couple of months, while some might agree and others disagree, I always try to provide educated opinions to separate commentary from the generic pack of people blurting out comments across industry forums and media publications that might not have firsthand experience on the front lines.
With that being said, it’s in my sole opinion that every funder/lender should offer their independent brokers lifetime renewal compensation despite new deal volume.
BROKER AGREEMENTS SEEM TO CHANGE ON A WHIM
I’ve been reselling the merchant cash advance and alternative business loan products since November 2009, however, the current program structures/agreements of my funders and lenders look totally different today than they did in the beginning.
It’s almost as if a new agreement is created every 12 – 18 months with similar conditions, but certain terms might have changed, including the compensation of renewals.
Some funders and lenders will start without any provisions related to renewals, basically as long as the client continues to renew, then you will be allowed to collect commissions off the client. But later on down the line, some funders and lenders will change provisions and require certain levels of new deal volume in order to be compensated on renewals going forward. Most broker agreements have terminology listed that states that the funder/lender can change the program at their discretion, however, I believe that at no point in time (other than for particular circumstances of fraud or ethics violations) should a funder take away a broker’s renewal compensation as whatever “good” it’s supposed to be doing (which I still can’t think of any), I believe it does far more damage in return.
YOU CAN’T CLOSE WHAT YOU CAN’T GET APPROVED
Sometimes a broker doesn’t fund a deal within 3 – 12 months because the funder can’t approve any of the submitted deals. If the broker is like myself, I’m going to pre-screen all new applications to see if it fits the underwriting criteria before submitting it, as submitting applications that are outside the criteria does nothing but waste valuable underwriting resources. If they are a somewhat conservative funder, a lot of times a broker just might get too few applicants to fit the box.
WHAT DID YOU ACTUALLY SPEND ON MARKETING?
Funders and lenders receive free marketing from brokers because they bring them the deals, so what is the big deal about continuing to pay renewal compensation despite new deal volume? They don’t have to worry about taking the risk of putting marketing capital up on the table with a potential of no return. The person who puts up the capital is the broker, and they should be compensated for the lifetime of the client regardless of new deal volume.
As an independent broker, the individual is a part of the Mom and Pop Network, which is just a group of random brokers who resell for free (100% commission). Not only are funders/lenders receiving the free marketing from the resellers, but they are also receiving free data to utilize in any potential “big data” valuations for sell-off, or “big data” analysis for better market segmentation. In addition, if the broker’s portfolio of merchants (even if it’s just one merchant) didn’t default or the default rate is very low, what is the justification for cutting off the broker just because there was no new deal funded?
RENEWALS ARE THE LIFEBLOOD OF THE BROKER’S INCOME
Once upon a time, during the very early days of MCA, the product was pretty much a one-off project. A merchant had an emergency, they sold off a percentage of their future credit card receivables in exchange for some upfront cash today, and used the cash to address whatever emergency they were facing. If the merchant renewed, it was usually one time (twice if you were lucky) and that was it. Today, it’s a different situation if you set up your merchant based on their proper Paper Grade. Merchants are renewing back-to-back, a lot of times for 3 to 5 years (or more) in a row, which means that the product is becoming more of an integrated portion of their business (similar to the MCA’s Kin A/R Factoring) rather than a one-off occurrence. This means for a broker, there’s a lot of money to be made off of their MCA portfolio going forward and the entire point is to build your portfolio up to a particular size, where you can just “sit back” and solely manage the renewals of the portfolio without being required to continually produce new deals by spending more on marketing.
Take a broker with a portfolio of 25 merchants who renew just about every 6 months (twice a year) with an average funding of $75,000 with 5 points commission per deal. That alone is $3.75 million a year in funding volume and almost $100,000 per year in income, solely off the renewal portfolio. If the broker maintains this portfolio for 10 years in a row, that’s almost $38 million in funding volume and close to $1 million in income. Why on Earth would you want to even threaten to cancel a broker out of the deal when again, it was their ingenuity, rapport building skills and sales skills that are the foundation of the clients coming to the funder to begin with, as well as continuing to renew back-to-back?
YOU ARE ASKING FOR YOUR MERCHANTS TO BE FLIPPED OR STACKED
The broker is the one who has the original relationship with the merchant, thus, the merchant more than likely has more rapport with the broker than they have with anyone in the funder’s organization. Thus, cutting off the broker from the renewal compensation might do nothing but just cause the merchant(s) to be stacked or flipped to another funder/lender.
TELL ME WHICH BROKER IS MORE VALUABLE? BROKER A OR BROKER B?
Okay, so tell me which Broker is more valuable? Is it Broker A or Broker B?
– Broker A: Over the course of one year, Broker A brings in 15 new merchants, with only 4 of those merchants renewing once because the broker didn’t price the merchants in their proper Paper Grade and thus, a competitor stole them away at renewal. This produces a total of 19 advances (new/renewal) and let’s say with the average funding being $50,000 you are looking at volume of $950,000.
– Broker B: Over the course of one year, Broker B brings you only 8 new merchants, but 3 of them renew 4 times back-to-back (12 additional advances), 2 of them renew 3 times back-to-back (6 additional advances), 2 of them renew 2 times back-to-back (4 additional advances), and 1 of them renew only once, for a total of 31 advances (new/renewal). Keeping the average funding at $50,000 you are looking at volume of $1,550,000.
Broker B supplied fewer new deals than Broker A, but Broker B provided an overall higher level of production based on the rapport and proper structure they established with their clients that produced more renewals and advances in total for the funder. Seeing as though in our industry, when funders count their “total volume funded” they include both new and renewal volumes, how can it be that Broker B is not more valuable to a funder than Broker A is? Not saying that Broker A isn’t valuable, but based on potentially cutting off renewal compensation due to a lower amount of new deal volume, they would potentially be cutting off the Broker that offers more value over time.
THE FINAL WORD
Why on Earth would a funder or lender want to kick out a competent broker by cutting off their renewal portfolio? What does it solve to cut off a competent broker, with a low (or no) default rate, just because they didn’t bring in newly funded deals during the previous 3 – 12 months? What does that solve? Does cutting them off somehow produce more margin for the funders? More market share? Savings in some sort of area? As mentioned, the broker is likely to flip the merchants or stack the merchants when this happens, which again, does nothing for the funder in terms of providing any type of benefits or value.
The only justification for cutting off a broker is when they are engaged in unscrupulous acts. But cutting off competent brokers just because they didn’t fulfill some insane new deal volume policy, makes absolutely no sense because at the end of the day, cutting off the brokers will be like cutting off the funder’s relationship with the merchants as well. With the parade of new funders looking to grab market share, what better way to gain it than to partner with competent but dejected brokers, who just got their renewal compensation cut off for not fulfilling some insane new deal policy?
The Broker’s Future Part Two
December 16, 2015THE ROBOTS ARE COMING
Merriam-Webster and Dictionary.com both agree, that a “robot” is a machine that is created to do the work of a person, carrying out a complex series of actions automatically, all controlled by a computer. Sometimes a robot can resemble a human being in likeness, but often times a robot is simply a piece of software, a piece of hardware, a piece of machinery, or a cloud based infrastructure called the internet (online networks). Professor Kaku is a futurist from City College of New York, a futurist is someone who makes what one would consider “fairly accurate” predictions about what the future holds and how these future events might emerge from present day events. Professor Kaku believes the following:
The job market of the future will consist of those jobs that robots cannot perform. Our blue-collar work is pattern recognition, making sense of what you see. Gardeners will still have jobs because every garden is different. The same goes for construction workers. The losers are white-collar workers, low-level accountants, brokers, and agents.
A RECAP OF PART ONE
Back in June 2015, I did an article for AltFinanceDaily about the Broker’s Future, speculating if the good times were indeed over for the brokers as it pertains to their level of profitability and survivability going forward.
- I examined the 2000 – 2007 and 2008 – 2013 time periods, speculating that the “Era of the Broker” was indeed between the 2000 – 2013 period.
- Then, I examined the current time period which begins around the middle of 2014, that is seeing so much of a mass new entrance of brokers into the space, that AltFinanceDaily had to compose a cover story on the phenomenon for the March/April edition of AltFinanceDaily Magazine. The only issue with this current time period is that, in my sole objective opinion, we are in the “Era of the Strategic Networks”, and no longer in the “Era of the Broker.”
- I concluded the article in June with the following: those just now trying to come in and ride the wave will soon discover that just like with the Stock Market, the real money has already been made and most of the future returns are already capitalized.
AN INTRODUCTION TO PART TWO
My analysis shows that the current time period is all about Strategic Networks, which are mainly three networks to be exact, which include the following, all designed to produce competitive market advantages, positioning, strategies, qualified leads, etc:
- The Center Of Influence Network: this includes entities such as banks, credit unions, processors, accountants, VCs, credit bureaus, etc., that allow access to exclusive leads, exclusive data, equity financing, debt financing, mergers, etc.
- The Mom and Pop Network of random independent agents across the country who resell on a 100% commission basis, providing free marketing in a way that collectively they produce a significant amount of volume (even though individually most of the agents cannot make a living from this activity).
- The Online Network with exclusivity on the growing online marketplace of merchants seeking financing, education and options via the internet.
For Part Two Of The Broker’s Future, I want to focus in on The Online Network, which in my opinion will be one of the main destroyers of opportunities in our space for the majority of brokers going forward.
DEATH OF A B2B SALESMAN
For about $499, you can read a very comprehensive report from Forrester on the death of B2B salespeople. Forrester predicts that by 2020, over 1 million B2B salespeople will lose their jobs to the growing force of IT/Robotics, which includes various forms of technology, automation and of course the internet in general through E-commerce.
In relation to our industry of merchant services, merchant cash advance and alternative business loans, I don’t believe that we have to wait until 2020 to see significant changes, I believe these changes are already in full effect and the major players within our space are the ones that are truly capitalizing on The Online Network, giving them major exclusivity on the growing online marketplace of merchants seeking financing, education and options via the internet.
MERCHANT SERVICES HAS BEEN AFFECTED
The Online Network phenomenon has totally destroyed the feet on the street MLS (merchant level salespeople) over on the merchant services side. Before the rise of the Online Network, MLS were valuable to merchants as information on merchant processing, interchange, how the bankcard transactional process worked, etc., were not readily available and most banks did not handle direct sales of the service. So the MLS would park their car down the street, randomly walk into merchant locations, and provide the education via brochures, terminal samples, etc.
They would explain how the merchant processing process works, how accepting credit cards could boost sales through more impulse purchases and consumer convenience, and more. The MLS would then go over the different options of payment processing technology, commit the merchant to a 24 – 48 month lease of the technology, and make his/her commission off the leasing sales and eventually also off the residuals. However, the rise of the Online Network completely shattered this business model:
- The Online Network now allows the merchant to comprehend merchant services on his own, without the help of the MLS, by researching interchange and conducting his own “rate analysis”. The merchant can also now see the true cost of the processing equipment, thus to no longer sign up for leases for $100 a month for 24 months ($2,400) for a $350 terminal at best.
As a result, the MLS can no longer prospect on “rate savings” nor prospect based on the equipment such as through leases or even through free terminals anymore, due to the merchant’s knowledge that the terminal is worth $350 at best. As a result, the direct sales of merchant services has become a value-add to other services, requiring yesterday’s MLS to transform into something totally different such as a financing or payroll specialist, trying to convert merchant accounts over on the side, as part of the sale.
ALTERNATIVE LENDING HAS BEEN AFFECTED
The merchant cash advance and alternative business loan products are more popular today than they have ever been before, due mainly to the massive media attention that they have received with companies going public, CEOs landing interviews on major media outlets, talking heads debating the products across a number of media mediums, and more. 7 – 15 years ago (2000 – 2008), if you were to look up a product online called “merchant cash advance”, you would not have produced many search results. As a result, to inform and educate the merchant on the product, you needed an actual human being (a broker) to sit down and explain the nuances of said services referred to as “split funding”, “revenue purchases”, and “holdback percentages.”
Compare this to today, where a simple search for “merchant cash advances” gives you pages upon pages of articles, promotional ads that follow you across the internet, company websites, press releases, and more. The merchant can easily learn about the merchant cash advance as well as other new forms of alternative financing by going online and scrolling through the vast amount of information. They can educate themselves on the products, companies, and payback procedures. They can fill out a form and get 10 quotes from 10 companies within a couple of hours and in a lot of cases, receive funding from one of the companies by the next business day. The phenomenon is so big that companies in our space are now just referred to as “Online Lenders,” totally shunning the fact that many operate with traditional brick and mortar locations and still employ brokers to still resell the products like they did “in the old days”.
THE FUTURE
Based on my sole objective analysis, The Future is going to be all about the three networks of Strategic Partnerships, which includes The Online Network. Without a shadow of a doubt, those that control these networks will be the major players going forward, as they will have the leveraged resources, knowledge, experience, financing, and connections that the newer market entrants just do not have.
The 80/20 dynamic will continue, where 20% of the players produce 80% (or more) of the production, and the other 80% of the players will fight over the remaining 20% (or less) of the production, which just will not be enough to sustain profitability going forward.
As fast as these new entrants rush in, will be as fast as they burn out. Burning through their savings and retirement funds, and/or running up the utilization rate on their credit cards, trying to take advantage of a “market opportunity” that they “heard about”, but is pretty much already capitalized on, by those who have been here long before they came on the scene.
Lender Or Broker – Do You Know Your Partner?
December 15, 2015I probed the audience here on AltFinanceDaily a couple of times this year. Back in June 2015, I wanted to know if you knew what you were selling when it came to the merchant cash advance product? In October 2015, I wanted to know if you knew what you were buying when it came to leads versus data? So as we close out 2015 here in December, I wanted to probe the audience of AltFinanceDaily once more, this time asking: do you know your partner?
THERE’S NO SLOW DOWN COMING (THE NEW ENTRANTS WILL CONTINUE TO RUSH IN)
I’ve been asked by individuals within the industry and those outside of it, on my opinion of when the mass rush of new entrants into the market will slow down. In my opinion, the Year of the Broker will not stop in 2015, but will continue into 2016 and most likely into 2017, when the chickens finally come home to roost for the new entrants, who mostly lack the leveraged networks needed to survive and thrive, and instead are relying on one or more of the following strategies which will no longer be efficient going forward:
- UCCs
- Aged Leads
- Random SIC listing calls
- Random Yellow page calls
- Parking your car down the street and randomly walking into merchant shops
- Stacking behind a 2nd position
Those who are leveraged with quality strategic partnerships, networks and access to exclusive data records, will be the ones that control the market going forward, while others will fail to remain profitable in this ever changing, integrating and evolving marketplace that we all fight tooth and nail in.
But I must ask you if you know your Partner, as this mass new entrance of players have created many documented cases of brokers having deals stolen, back-doored, commissions not paid, renewal commissions cut-off, and other unscrupulous acts. The vast majority of these documented cases are coming from broker-to-broker relationships, with one broker submitting a file to another broker, but being totally unaware of the fact that they are not working with a “direct” funder or lender.
As we go forward through our changing marketplace, where profits will get tighter, strategic partnerships will be your driving competitive advantage and where access to merchants in general from a “cold-calling” perspective will get more restrictive, you just can no longer afford to be the victim of an unscrupulous act and lose commissions. As a result, going forward, you must indeed know your partner.
THE SEVEN
The following are the seven ways that one could participate in our space:
The Referral: They are not involved in the actual sales process at all, which includes selling rates, collecting paperwork, signatures, etc. All they do is refer a person’s name, telephone number and email address, and might collect an upfront referral fee for doing so. These are usually members of a strategic partnership such as a bank, credit union, credit card processor, accounting firm, insurance firm, etc.
The Sub-Broker: They work as a broker-to-a-broker, going out and doing all of the activity involved with the sales process and submitting the package to a broker, who will then submit it to a couple of funders to “close” the deal. They would then be paid a portion of the commission that the broker gets from the funder or lender once the deal funds, so if the broker gets 6 points, the sub-broker might get 2 or 3 points. Sometimes these individuals (sub-brokers) are willingly signing up for this arrangement, and sometimes they are unwillingly signing up by believing the broker is an actual direct funder or lender, when they are not. This leads to a majority of the issues I’ve identified such as having deals stolen, deals back-doored, commissions not paid, renewal commissions cut-off, and other unscrupulous acts.
The Broker: They go out and do all of the activity involved with the sales process and submit the package to a funder or lender, then manages certain aspects of the closing process such as getting additional signatures, questions answered, stips collected, etc. They would then be paid the commission they set on the deal by marking up the funder or lender’s buy-rate. So if the buy-rate is a 1.12 for a 6 month period, and they marked it up to 1.18, they would be paid 6 points on the deal.
The Syndicate: They would basically do everything a Broker would do, but for some deals they will put some of their own capital resources on the line through syndication, it might be their own equity sources or they might use debt sources such as those from credit card no interest promo deals. The syndication process just allows them to take more money home on the deal.
The Direct Funder/Lender: They have built their own underwriting platform and formulas to lend out either merchant cash advances and/or alternative business loans with a focus on a certain level of profitability and to maintain a certain default rate threshold.
The All-In-One: This is a firm that basically is structured as a direct funder/lender, but they also broker out some deals and on those deals that are brokered out, some of them include the firm syndicating to increase their take home revenue on the deal in particular.
The Investor: This is an equity or debt source that invests capital into a direct funder/lender’s underwriting platform and formula, seeking to capitalize on the high profits that result from a merchant successfully paying back either a merchant cash advance or an alternative business loan.
KNOW A DIRECT FUNDER/LENDER WHEN YOU SEE ONE
When I first started reselling the merchant cash advance and alternative business loan products in late 2009, I noticed that one of the ways to differentiate yourself in the market was to say that you were a “direct funder”, apparently the mentality was that merchants only wanted to talk to the people who could actually do the lending.
Well, I preferred to just admit upfront to merchants that I was a broker, but just explain that the industry is complicated in terms of the pricing models that are present. If you qualify for A+ Paper pricing, you want to make sure you are submitting your package to an A+ Paper lender, otherwise, you might be a merchant with a 700 FICO, clean banks, no liens, and other A+ Paper like qualifications, but might be submitting your package to a funder that will only spit out 6 month offers at 1.35 factor rates. So if you are seeking to work with a direct funder/lender (even if they also syndicate or broker on the side), you just have to know one when you see one, by using some of the following rules of thumb:
- Licensure: Look for some type of state licensure or registration. You can usually find this out by asking the firm their corporate legal name and research this in the state database of where they are incorporated or other states of where they do business.
- Track Record: Look for a proven track record, which means they should have funded at least $10 million in volume and have in business at least 12 – 24 months.
- Fully Staffed: Look for a full office staff, by the firm being very small, this is how your deals end up getting lost, stolen, or the underwriting process drags on for seemingly forever.
- Online Identity: Look for a professionally designed website with a business email address. In addition, look for some type of online press release about the shop opening, a media interview, or news release about an equity or debt financing round. Look up the principals on LinkedIn, and the company should come up on Google as well as other online directory listings including the Better Business Bureau. If you can’t find anything about the company or the principals online in some sort of professional listing and/or publicity based format, I would move on.
THE FINAL WORD
I don’t think there’s a worse feeling one can have, to have gone through the process of spending money to generate a qualified lead, to “close” that lead by getting them to send you an application package, and then to submit the package to your supposed “funder”, only to have the deal stolen and back-doored because your supposed “funder” was nothing but an unscrupulous broker the entire time.
Making sure you select good partners is vital to your survival on this battlefield called “alternative lending”, a battlefield that we fight, scratch, and claw on daily to feed ourselves, our families, and help make the lives of small business owners more efficient than before we got here.
CAN Capital: Beyond Hyperbole
December 11, 2015
It’s usually risky to say “first,” “largest” or “best,” but CAN Capital invites those superlatives and more.
Asked whether the company’s the biggest in the alternative funding business, CEO Dan DeMeo hedges only a little with qualifiers like “might” or “probably” before proudly announcing that the company has provided access to more than $5.5 billion in working capital through 163,000 fundings to merchants operating in over 540 different kinds of businesses.
Glenn Goldman, the company’s CEO from 2001 to 2013 and now Credibly’s chief executive, doesn’t mince words about his former employer when he calls CAN Capital the biggest and most profitable small business alternative finance company in the U.S.
Cofounder and Chairman Gary Johnson proclaims without hesitation that CAN Capital was the first alternative small business finance company. His wife and cofounder, Barbara Johnson, came up with the idea of the Merchant Cash Advance in 1998 when she had trouble raising funds to promote her business, he said.
CAN Capital developed the first platform to split card receipts between the merchant and funder, and it gave birth to the idea of daily remittances, Johnson continued. Within a few years of its founding the company was turning a profit, another first in alternative finance, he claimed.
The innovation continued from there, according to Andrea L. Petro, executive vice president and division manager of Lender Finance, a division of Wells Fargo Capital Finance. She cited a couple of possible firsts she’s witnessed in her dealings with CAN Capital.
When CAN Capital received a loan from Wells Fargo in 2003, it may have been the first sizeable placement in the alternative finance industry by a major traditional financial institution, Petro said. In 2010, CAN Capital was among the first alternative funders to offer direct loans, she noted.
Petro stopped short of characterizing CAN Capital as the best in the alternative finance business, but she praised the company’s management and lauded its systems for underwriting and monitoring funding. “They continually upgrade their systems, upgrade their software, upgrade their people,” she said.
Calling CAN Capital one of the best comes naturally to Kevin Efrusy, a partner at Accel Partners and a CAN Capital board member. Accel saw opportunity in alternative finance because banks were reluctant to lend at the same time that an explosion of data on small businesses was informing the underwriting process. When Accel sought a position in the industry, it contacted CAN Capital, he said.
“Frankly, CAN Capital didn’t need or want our money,” Efrusy said. “We approached them.” Five years ago, Accel convinced CAN Capital that additional resources could help the company grow, and it bought a stake in the company.
With so many extolling the virtues of CAN Capital, AltFinanceDaily asked DeMeo for a look at the thinking that underlies the success.
PLOTTING STRATEGY
CAN Capital pursues a strategy that DeMeo visualizes as a honeycomb. In the center cell, he places the objective of “helping small businesses succeed.” The compartmental element above that provides a place for the goal of serving as “the preferred provider of financial solutions to small business,” he said. The company’s cultural values, summarized as “Care, Dare and Deliver,” reside in the compartment below the center cell as table stake underpinnings, he added.
DeMeo also describes the company as driven by four strategic planks: “1) Expand the market, 2) broaden the product set, 3) deepen relationships with customers, and 4) achieve operating excellence,” he said.
What does success look like to the company? To DeMeo, it’s dramatic growth in the number of customers, resulting in increased revenue, a more valuable company and better career opportunities. “Digital automation and customer experience are at the center of those efforts,” he said.
CAN Capital operates with a “huge appetite for ‘test and learn,’” according to DeMeo. “That’s how we keep innovation alive,” he said.
And the result of all that? The company has increased fundings by 29 percent (CAGR) and revenue by 24 percent (CAGR), with corresponding growth in earnings, DeMeo said. It has also grown its digital business by 600 percent since 2014, he noted.
AT THE WHEEL
DeMeo, the man at the top of CAN Capital, joined the company in 2010 as chief financial officer and became CEO early in 2013. He was previously CFO at 1st Financial Bank, and also served as CFO for JP Morgan Chase’s consumer and small business unit. DeMeo also was chief marketing officer and ran business development head for GE Capital’s consumer card unit. His career began at Citibank, where he held senior roles in marketing and customer analytics.
“I was very fortunate to work for some pedigree companies earlier in my career,” DeMeo said. “Those companies emphasized market based training and development, and I worked with very smart and hardworking people. I also had great experience in unsecured lending.” His formative years left him with great appreciation for “behavioral analytics and the quantitative, information-based approach to business finance.”
Experience convinced him, as a CEO, the importance of attention to the balance sheet and income statement. It’s vital to combine that with innovation and growth orientation, DeMeo said. He seeks to lead, inspire and motivate employees, he emphasized.
DeMeo grew up in Atlantic City, NJ, with parents who valued hard work, education and maximizing opportunity. His wife and three children have supported him in his career despite the long hours and dedication necessary for success.
At CAN Capital DeMeo has faced the challenge of managing the business through internal and external cycles. Running the company often comes down to balancing what customers want with what makes economic sense, he said. “Pigs eat, and hogs get slaughtered,” he maintained. “You can’t get too greedy.”
DeMeo runs the company without the help of a President or Chief Operating Officer. While DeMeo serves as the public face of the company, he also devotes himself to every aspect of operations, he said.
WHAT’S IN A NAME?
Although CAN Capital’s drive for technological innovation and its measured approach to fundings have remained constant, the company has renamed itself several times to fit changing times.
In November 2013, it rebranded itself publicly as CAN Capital, and the company now provides access to business loans through CAN Capital Asset Servicing Inc, and Merchant Cash Advances through CAN Capital Merchant Services.
With the CAN Capital rebranding, it dropped the umbrella name of Capital Access Network. At the same time, it retired the AdvanceMe, New Logic Business Loans and CapTap names.
Most of the company’s old names applied to products or distribution channels, DeMeo said. The company had added them when it presented a new product, such as loans, or introduced a way of going to market, like end-to-end digital technology.
Consolidating the names reflected the company’s decision to put its direct marketing efforts on equal footing with business generated by partner companies, DeMeo said. Having just one name would result in a more efficient approach to building a stronger brand, he noted.
“The opportunity is to create one brand, multiple products and omni channel distribution under one company,” he said. “For a company our size, it would be hard to create brand awareness if you had to put significant promotional support behind every one of those sub brands.”
CAN Connect is a sub-brand that has survived. “That’s not a product name or distribution channel name,” DeMeo said. “It’s the technology suite we use to connect with partners so that we can exchange information in real time.”
CAN Connect is a way to speed up the process and eliminate friction for customers and partners. For example, a partner is able to link their CRM directly into CAN Capital’s decision engine, eliminating manual steps in submitting and generating offers. For partners with a customer-facing portal, CAN Connect enables an offer to be made available in real time to a small business owner, taking advantage of data sharing APIs to tailor the marketing message to fit the prospective customer’s needs.
Attention to detail pays off in repeat business for CAN Capital, in DeMeo’s view. “Almost 70% of our merchants return for another contract,” he said
THE GENESIS
By all accounts, CAN Capital is a company born of necessity. Barbara Johnson, who had the brainstorm that became CAN Capital, was running four Gymboree playgroup franchises in Connecticut and needed funds to finance summertime direct marketing efforts for fall enrollment.
But her company didn’t have much in the way of assets to pledge, so banks weren’t interested in providing funds. Why, she reasoned, couldn’t she just borrow or receive an advance against the credit card receipts she knew would flow in when the kids came back in the autumn? Thus, she gave birth to an industry.
Barbara Johnson and her husband, direct marketing executive Gary Johnson, cofounded the company as Countrywide Business Alliance and put up their own money to build a computerized platform to split card revenue, Gary Johnson said.
Then they persuaded a card processor to partner with them. Once they were operating and had signed their first customer, venture capital began flowing their way to grow the business. These days, the Johnsons remain major shareholders.
“What made it an interesting concept was how huge the market potential was,” Gary Johnson said. “That’s what the attraction still is today.” Although Merchant Cash Advances may now seem commonplace, they were startling at first, he said. “When we first went out in the marketplace, everybody thought it was a crazy idea,” he noted.
The company earned patents on processing related to Merchant Cash Advances and daily remittances, Gary Johnson said. At first, the patents deterred potential competitors from entering the business, but the company was unable to defend the patents successfully in court. Rivals then entered the fray.
Just the same, the company became profitable early on through “deliberate decision-making, having the right people in place and being bigger than everybody else,” he said.
Much of the company’s early business came through firms that provide merchants with transaction services, and that remains the case today, DeMeo said. Many were placing point of sale terminals in stores and restaurants to accept credit cards, and working capital became an upsell or cross-sell, he noted.
The large base of business CAN Capital built with merchant services companies means it will always be an important channel for the company. Recently, new merchant sign-ups have come from more diverse channels, including cobranded and referral partners, and the fast-growing direct marketing channels.
From the beginning, the merchants receiving capital used it to grow their businesses, DeMeo said. “That feeds the whole economic system and creates jobs,” he said.
TODAY’S NUTS AND BOLTS
Daily remittances give CAN Capital nearly constant insight into how well customers are performing, which enables the company to discover potential issues quickly and take action. Such close monitoring also provides the company with enough information to enable funding opportunities that competitors might pass up, DeMeo said.
“The basis for our decisions is how the business performs and business-specific indicators, such as capacity and consistency, versus looking at the personal credit history of the business owner,” DeMeo noted.
Having that data also helps the company create models it can use to serve other businesses in the same classification, DeMeo said. “It’s poured into machine learning for future decisioning,” he maintained. “It’s a cool concept, right?”
The company’s 450 or so employees work in several locations. Three hundred of the total are attached to the office in Kennesaw, GA, the region where the company first set up operations. To this day, that’s where the company conducts most of its business, DeMeo said.
About 25 employees work in technology and operating support in offices in Salt Lake City because the area offers a strong talent pool and provides the company with additional time zone coverage, DeMeo said.
Some of the company’s former executives came from Western Union, which had a presence in Costa Rica. About a hundred employees are now stationed there, working on technology, maintenance and development. That location also houses back-office redundancy for the company, too.
On Manhattan’s 14th Street, the company has 30 or so employees, who include digital engineers, marketing and business development teams, the human resources lead, the chief financial officer, the chief legal officer, and the chief executive officer. The company moved its executive office there from Scarsdale, NY to take advantage of the digital boom, he said, adding that, “Google’s right around the corner.”
Compared with most companies in alternative finance, CAN Capital has little venture capital as part of its ownership structure, DeMeo said. “It’s a self-sustaining business. We’re not forced to approach the capital market to cover our burn rate. We’re cash-flow positive.” Competitors have to borrow to fund their growth, he noted.
The company has taken on infusions of debt financing, not equity financing. In the latter, a company is selling part of itself, DeMeo said. “We raised $650 million from a syndicate with five new banks and 10 banks in total.” The company completed a securitization of $200 million the year before, he said.
CAN Capital recently introduced the new TrakLoan product that has no fixed maturity date, with daily payments that are based on a fixed percentage of card receipts. This way, payments ebb and flow with the merchant’s card sales. CAN Capital is also testing “bank-like” installment loans of as much as $500,000 with a payback period of up to four years.
And there’s nowhere to go but up, in the view of CAN Capital executives. With a market of 28 million small American merchants and penetration of between 5 and 10 percent, they see plenty of potential to keep earning superlatives.
Brokers: Being a Minimalist is Okay
December 1, 2015
I’ve always wondered why being successful has to be tied to the acquisition of high-dollar materialistic toys. And I’ve always wondered why it wasn’t more tied to your level of freedom. Freedom as in, telling the world to go to hell. Being able to do whatever you wanted to do, live where you wanted to live, and enjoy the limited amount of time you had on this planet before you passed away back into whatever cloud you came from.
Let many within our industry tell it (as they seek to build their Mom and Pop Network), success is all about the acquisition of high-dollar materialistic toys in conjunction with delusional compensation promises.
I have criticized some of the motivational sales speeches done within our industry by direct funders, lenders and large broker houses, seeking to recruit those (for their Mom and Pop Network) into our industry from the Burger King drive-thru line, with the dream of making big money, fast. But we all know the reality is that only a small percentage of those that enter our space actually end up having some sort of career longevity, as success in our industry is based more on having strategic leveraged resources, rather than being the mythical smooth talking, walking, charismatic sales machine. The misguided sales motivational enticement speech is coupled with pictures of luxury cars like the Mercedes Benz S-class, along with big houses on the hill.
That marketing message clear, if you come in here and resell our services to merchants out of the Yellow Pages or by using the same UCC data that 100 other brokers are calling on, you will soon be closing deals left and right! You will be making $20,000 a month, enough to be driving that S-Class and living in that house on the hill!
THIS MESSAGE AND MILLENIALS
It’s a very enticing message for a segment of Millennials, like the ones that have attended brand name colleges for $100k on student loans, only to come out and be told that they don’t have enough experience to even qualify for entry level positions. Same goes for the ones forced to work in industries that have nothing to do with their expensive degrees.
“So you mean I can skip that nonsense, sit on a predictive dialer all day calling something referred to as a “UCC record?” they might gleefully ask. “And I can start today? I’m in!” I’m sorry, but it’s mostly a pipe dream.
Sure, there are a few individual brokers making $20,000 a month right now, but the majority making anywhere close to that are only talking about “special” months that they have had, not a consistent two-year span of this activity. Or, they have overrides on a team of individual brokers and this amount of money is usually the gross revenue, which means once you take out their very high cost of operations (using their very expensive mailing or online PPC campaigns), it paints a totally different picture.
CAN SUCCESS = MINIMALISM?
There’s a new movement going on and it’s all about Minimalism. Minimalism is based on living below your means to a point where you can survive and live a quality life on what’s been traditionally seen as “not so much,” without getting yourself deep into debt or requiring significant incomes for a long period of time due to having to sustain your high consumption lifestyle.
I once told you that it was okay to be a piker, and I’m telling you today that it’s okay to be a minimalist.
- It’s okay to not want to lease or purchase that luxury car, putting yourself on the hook for $600 – $900 a month in car payments for 36, 60, 84 or even 120 months.
- It’s okay to not want to purchase that big house, putting yourself on the hook for 20 – 30 years of a $2,000 – $3,000 or so mortgage payment before even bringing in the costs of maintenance, repairs, utilities, furniture, taxes and insurance.
- It’s okay to not want to buy every single new gadget that a technology company releases.
- It’s okay to take staycations rather than vacations.
- It’s okay to cook at home, eat healthy and eat less, rather than eat out all of the time digesting processed foods through the drive-thru or at the most expensive restaurants you can find.
- It’s okay to only buy clothes you are going to actually wear and take care of them, rather than going shopping for new clothes every weekend based solely on emotional needs.
CAN SUCCESS = BEING ABLE TO TELL THE WORLD TO GO TO HELL?
It’s okay to be a Minimalist and live longer, on less.
You will eventually find yourself in a situation to where if you stopped working tomorrow, you would have enough saved in liquid and non-liquid assets to where you can tell the world to go to hell.
- You can tell your boss and fellow staff members to go to hell
- You can tell your materialistic friends to go to hell (because you will stop trying to impress them)
- You can tell your bad surroundings to go to hell (because you’ll be in an area you find peaceful)
That’s how Mr. Money Mustache did it. He did it by incorporating Minimalism as well as efficiently managing his income, expenses and investment accounts, to be able to tell the world at 30 to go to hell.
That’s true freedom, which is true success, which is the ability to not be in shackles to a corporation, due to living a high consumption lifestyle trying to impress people that don’t even like you anyway. True success is being free to leave behind the legacy that you prefer as well as to live the life that you prefer, not the type of life that society pressures you into “signing up for” with 5 year, 10 year, 20 year and 30 year installment terms.
